Pushing Limits Ch. 04

I'm glad you liked the discussion during the walk scene since I added that specifically to start flesh out their relationship as people a little bit based on your feedback.

Your valid criticism on a previous chapter that I failed to show their relationship dynamic and her feelings for him was dead on. I apparently forgot not every stranger reading lives in my head and I actually needed to include what I saw as givens in the story. An embarrassing oversight considering for me their relationship is the story. The rest was fun but secondary.

And yes, the coincidences were certainly rampant in this chapter! Although I think Mary would say it wasn't coincidental, but rather the universe aligning our paths for the greater good or something. :)

I think I'm firmly on #TeamNon-Psycho but I'm really looking forward to your thoughts on future chapters as they get down to it.

It made my day that Mary's stating intent was noteworthy to you. Intent and motivation of various parties was an interesting element to me as I was writing it so to see you pick up on the first whiff of that made me really excited to hear what you think as that plays out.

I appreciate the thoughtfulness you put into your comments so much. I don't always agree and I know there will be much to disappoint you in the chapters ahead, but I find your take on it fascinating and you bring up a lot of things that are interesting discussions in their own right. Thanks so much for your feedback.

I do think some words are better left to die, but like @DocMagnus I doubt we could get a consensus on which words should, but it would be an interesting discussion.

My personal feelings on this are shared with the protagonist (go figure) in that I'm also very particular about what I will and won't be called and in what context.

Her limits regarding this for any potential Domme were clearly addendums to her current limits with her Sir which have some words on the permanent ban list and others only acceptable from him.

That she is very okay with him calling her names that would be unthinkable in another context is just another consensual element to their relationship. There are a lot of things about their relationship that really work for them that not everyone would enjoy.

My wording that scene was deliberate. With the gear/restraints she deferred to him immediately and completely. That was 100% his call.

When it came to the verbiage she gave him her input immediately without waiting to be asked. She said it was okay, but qualified it with "just for the duration of this" and "since they know I belong to you" so her consent to modify the limit came with both parameters and her rationale.

He had final say in that he could have insisted the limit be enforced, she would have been fine deferring to him on that. But he wouldn't have waived the limit had she not told him she was okay with it. He's shown respect for her limits both in the initial discussion in Chapter 2 and earlier in this chapter where he stated "Both my limits for her and her own will be strictly adhered to at all times."

He was deliberately explicit to show he saw her limits for herself as binding as his own. His response to Mary, "You heard her answer, so that's fine." was more than just letting Mary know she had the green light to call her slut. The way he answered acknowledged that this was her decision that he is allowing. And when he reinforced the rest of the limit including an aside to why the limit is in place... you don't get that without great communication about and respect for limits.

TLDR - she is particular about what she's to be called in what context and any deviation from that is her deliberate, informed choice.

That Mary believes in reclaiming the power of the word is a viewpoint shared by many and one I understand intellectually, even if I wouldn't apply it across the board personally. I do think that pov fits with her character, but of course ymmv.

So which words should die? I think slut can be incredibly from the right man within the right relationship dynamic, but the word whore is an instant arousal killer for me. Others totally get off on being called whore, others would find slut traumatic. Who am I to think my personal responses to words should determine how and if others use them? Or who is anyone else to say what two consenting adults can call each other in life or in fiction?

I understand the impulse but for me it's a slippery slope. I think people should express themselves as they chose with the understanding that others have every right to call them out when they find something offensive.

I agree with you when it comes to safe words in most circumstances. Using this story as an example if Sir told her if she used the safe word it would be respected but would end everything I'd consider that bullying and viciously manipulative because when they are engaged in D/s activity it's for mutual pleasure and intimate connection within the context of their relationship. The safe word is not just to protect her from immediate mental and physical harm, which is a risk no matter how careful the participants because lines can be inadvertently crossed. A good Dom wants to know when that happens so he can put an immediate stop to the source of trauma, give her whatever care she needs whether that's just making sure she's okay and proceeding in another direction if that's what she wants or more intensive comforting.

If activities come to a complete halt after a safe word it should only be because the partner who used the safe word doesn't wish to continue and of course should always be respected. If it's ended by one to punish the other for communicating a limit then to me that's a deal breaker because their goal is a shared mutually satisfying sexual experience and there are a myriad of other things they can do together to continue which would work for both of them.

Although I do think the whole push beyond limits to the point of loss of total control (which is the all or nothing of safeword ends it all) can be crazy hot in fantasy and erotic fiction. There are a lot of things I find incredibly sexy in my imagination that I wouldn't tolerate irl, and some of my favorite erotic stories have this element to them.

Whether this is an actual relationship, play partners, fuck buddies...IMO this would apply because while the interactions will have different levels of emotional depth the intent of a shared experience for it's own sake within well communicated limits is the same.

But for me what Mary proposed was completely different as it was negotiating a professional service with a different end goal. Whatever pleasure Mary and Jeannette would get would be part of the process, but the purpose for the domination session wasn't their pleasure, mutual attraction, or desire. It's a service they provide to help people get past their inhibitions which are getting in the way of their sexual potential.

Like a sexual therapy - if they feel certain things need to happen in her to to go through the process of confronting and overcoming her inhibitions then allowing her to say no to portions of it would defeat the purpose and render it ineffective.

A weird analogy but when you get braces they explain the process. If I'd refused wires or rubber bands my orthodontist wouldn't have come up with other things he could do instead during our time together...he'd have told my parents that I need to cooperate with what needed to be done or call it a day because the end goal was correcting my overbite, not the shared experience of my monthly appointments.

Or if I was cast on Survivor and refused to be on camera or live with strangers. That's fine and my right to avoid both of those things, but I don't have the right to participate and make them accommodate me.

So tldr I saw the safe word here very differently as it was part of a structured, albeit unconventional, protocol where it was reasonable that someone was all in or it couldn't continue....which is wildly different than within a relationship which ongoing trust and limits are of a very different nature and the expectations are completely different.

In short - it was a very different kind of contract and for me it's fine in this instance where it wouldn't be irl in some others. Mileage varies of course.

If using the safe word means everything is ended completely and forever (kill switch) - pack your shit, leave and never come back, well, what the hell? That is a threat. That sets up for abuse, for sub toleration of abuse, or even just mistakes. It does NOT build the trust and two way learning a power exchange should have. That is predicated on the omniscient dom/me, the one who could never ever misjudge, misread or miscalculate.

It reeks of 'break the sub' idealogy, which is abhorrent to me.

Ideally, safe words should seldom be used. Their existence allows for trust building and limit exploration. Any situation without a safeword, and trust it would be honored, would quickly be viewed only through my rear view mirror.

I am admittedly biased, but I am loving this story! Enjoyed this chapter especially. The section where Sub's ass is being fingered while terms of submission are discussed is just crazy hot.

Very impressed with Anonymous' very thoughtful comment. Much more constructive than usual for this site. I have a philosophical difference with his/her opinion on safe words. In my experience, they have always been in place. Never had one used, but the knowledge that they were there, and would be honored, allowed the play to proceed with the level of trust needed to let go. But everyone's experience is different.

I definitely agree that some words are better off being left to die. Not sure if we'd agree on which words, but that could make for an interesting conversation.