All Comments on 'Lue to Lucy and Back - Complete and Expanded'

I'm afraid that Lucy just comes across as a greedy sow who wants her cake and eat it. And her husband is stupid enough to let her.

When does he get his? When is her love for him going to allow him to do what she's done?

I can understand him allowing her this, but she needs some repricocity here.

the initial scene from the previous posting of this story. Well, it's an alternative life-style and I suppose one justification for it is the implied fact that as this happened half a lifetime ago, was consensual, and the happy couple is still together in their 60's (?) then who are we the readership to comment or complain.

This lifestyle is however very much in the female's favour: she gets to play while hubby gets to wait (isn't there a website called that?). It shows how times have changed. In the old days a threesome meant a man and two women: now with the advent of the cuckold science -- or pseudo-science -- it's always a woman and at least two men. What's changed? If Luedon (which apparently equals a couple) are happy, and if, as they write elsewhere they are against any humiliation as part of the cuckolding lifestyle, then I'm ok with reading it and I do try to understand it.

The final scene written here is a slightly heavy-handed attempt to give a happy-ever-after, all is back (almost) to normal to reassure the doubting reader. Well, ok -- and they are still together. Does hubby get to play elsewhere as well?

I think he gets to explore cheating in the 'sequel' to this story. I agree with your comments though, it does seem that this story is really just an attempt at justification of the wife's actions by her own mind. Since the story, and it's sequel, hint somewhat to being autobiographical, I can only assume that the author and her spouse did go through something similar to this.

The theme is similar to many of the stories here, in that there is a long term relationship that has gone stale and it leads to a partner having an affair. My complaint is that one partner took advantage. The wife in this story showed an utter lack of respect by not discussing the issue first with her spouse. Had she done so and the spouse acted the same way as the husband in this story, then they agreed upon it and it is a mutual decision. If the husband had said he wasn't willing to go along with it, then the wife could give him the respect of either granting him a divorce or changing her mind about her need for an affair.

Sadly, it is this lack of communication that leads to much of the angst and bitterness we see in most of the LW genre stories. In a relationship, if the partners truly love one another, they would speak about their discontents before acting on them. Certainly this could still lead to hurt and a messy situation, maybe the relationship will not last beyond it, but at the end of the day there would still be respect. Without respect, you can't honestly say you love your partner. You are staying with them because it is comfortable and assured, but not because you still truly love them.

I've been with my wife, engaged or married, since the early 90's. I knew going in that she was death on cheating and we discussed it in full. I told her that I doubted that she ever would and I certainly didn't plan on it, but if either of us ever changed our minds we should talk about the ramifications before we broke our vows to one another. We've never had that talk and we are still faithful to each other, but if she came to me and said she was interested in someone else, I would respect her for telling me and giving me the option to agree or take other measures. I can only hope she would feel the same way if the situation was reversed.

tl;dr Respect your partner or expect your relationship to have issues.

It would also be interesting to know what happened to Julie. Ray flat out cheated on her and nothing was ever mentioned in either story as to whether she was ever told. It's all fair and good if your husband said you could cheat on him(after the fact, see my previous comment about respect), but did any of the 3 of you ever speak with the pregnant wife and ask her opinion?

It seems that she is the truly wounded party out of all this, especially since she had children with the adulterous husband. I mean, you could have literally destroyed another family with your actions; it would be interesting to know if you have any sorrow or regret over that, or if you have another convenient method of explaining it away.

I appreciate lueden's courage in above regard. This was an absorbing read that was paced very well in terms of how extramarital activity garnered traction, gained velocity, took flight and finally landed and came to rest. Ray and the narrator made minimal excuses in terms of acting on their attraction , no frigid or castigating spouses ecetera, ecetera.

That will be hard to overlook for most of Loving Wives demographic in terms of scoring. As for myself, I wish that the main two-some had more charm, that the flirting banter or failing that that Lucy wasn't so nonchalant about the carnal bye Don sanctioned. The seagull philosophy was, however, an excellent element to add to story intrigue.

Personally, I couldn't imagine practicing it myself with kids still under marital roof. Afterwards the fallout and damage potential is much less. How to rate the story ? I'm torn. The polish to narrative isn't top notch but I was drawn into the themes as they morphed into action. The characters are mostly wilfully self absorbed .

I did have a fair amount of sympathy and curiosity for Don . He finally launches his entrepreneurial venture into paying proposition and now Lucy has to get some strange. He was attentive , but not enthralled as full blown cuck would be. Sometimes he seemed graceful, then detached .

In end analysis: my best guess is he had A LOT of confidence to let things play out as they did. That eventually the logistics of Ray and Lucy ' s attraction would sputter and wind down , then out. Don's business was viable, Ray was mere salaried employee, the kids ..... . Don wasn't and didn't pretend to be an alpha male archetype . He had a philosophy and put it in practice.

I'm dubious about the philosophy but I admire the courage to apply deeds to theory. It would be great to see things flip and Don announce a fidelity hiatus. But for this installment, he walked his talk. Ergo full marks. *****

This story has one redeeming feature and that is when Ray says "it was fun while it lasted" thereby puncturing three and a half pages of inflated nonsense about love being infinite and setting seagulls free and Christ knows what else nauseating drivel. He just wanted to fuck you, baby. Be thankful for a husband who reads Richard Bach.

with the comments about Julie as a victim of this play scene -- from memory I think I made this point about the other wife last time this story was posted. It casts doubt on whether it's fair to call it consensual.

This story is an excellent piece written in the pov of a woman. No man could have pulled a piece off like this. The sex scenes were hot and descriptive. The writing made me feel like I was listening to an actual person's thoughts, and not a cartoon cutout version of a cheating wife.

But I still don't care for the main character. Rereading this story, and knowing the follow up story in which she throws a hissy fit when her husband steps out ONE TIME, makes her seem so much more selfish and hypocritical. If this is autobiographical, then I commend this couple for making it work for them. Everyone's marriage has to last on its own, and no two marriages should look the same. What works for one couple could destroy another. For me, the issue with this situation isn't the extra marital sex, its the lack of reciprocity. That is my issue with cuckold stories in general. I judge less on morality and more on fairness. If my wife were to have sex with another man, she damn well better expect me to be fucking the shit out of a woman of my choosing. Multiple times.

I wish this couple would post more stories. The writing is top notch. Hell, if I write a story from a woman's POV I may just get Lue to write my sex scenes. Lol.

I feel a writer needs to post the story they want to tell... the first time. All of us are given some very good criticisms about how the story could have been better, but writers should incorporate the suggestions into their next story. Once the baby is born, don't try to make it into something else. Every story posted could be better, but thank God every writer does not keep trying to 'fix' the story they posted. The shelf life of most stories here is a couple of days. Bringing back the old loaf of bread in a different wrapper doesn't make it fresher.

Your right nothing's changed she's still a amoral piece of trash.But it does read MUCH better and flows more easily then it used to. So in that respect I'd suggest you have succeeded in improving the writing. The narrative is of course still rather awful but it's your take to tell.

The story is very well written but it's just not my cup of tea,i can't imagine myself sleeping in the spare room while my wife is fucking with someone else in the next ,sorry but i gave you 3 ***

BTW i agree with HDK

I have to agree with another reader that once a story has been published, it should be put to rest, warts and all. I would love to rewrite every one of the stories I've written, as I always catch something afterward that I wish I could change (or, more accurately, some wise-ass, anal-retentive reader will catch it.) But what's done is done.

I enjoyed this story the first time I read it, and because so much time has passed since then, I can't tell exactly what was changed. From a moral standpoint, I'm bothered by the same thing that bothered me the first time: if Don had allowed Lue to have this affair BEFORE she had it, I'd have no moral issue with it.

The problem is that she didn't have his permission when she did it. It's fine and noble that Don was so accepting of her having sex with another man. What he shouldn't have accepted so easily was her going behind his back and lying to him (by omission) about what sh was doing. It's one thing to say that sex is just sex, and there is nothing wrong with a little harmless fun; it's another to blatantly lie to your spouse and break the marital promise to each other without mutual consent.

With that said, I can't help but admire your courage in sharing this story -- and the story that follows this one, which makes Lue appear to be even more of a flawed character. It takes tremendous courage and humility to acknowledge such moments of weakness.

You write with such remarkable insight that it's a shame you haven't written anything else. I encourage you to branch off into the realm of fiction and really expand the boundaries of your imagination. Bring that same level of insight to a fictional character caught in a fictional situation, based on your life's experiences.

Luedon needs to fire a salvo in favor of cheating as a way of life. They usually do this through the comments section, but I suppose there has been such a thorough destruction of all the justifications for cheating recently they felt the need to get their moral justifications before the public eye. I understand.

When one's philosophy of life is being blown apart, one feels the necessity to defend it. The problem is, this has been posted before. Write a new story, Luedon, that explains why you think it's okay to cheat on your spouse. This is just cheap.

A further problem is that Luedon assumes that because Don forgives and accepts Lue's cheating and they live happily ever after, this should happen in every case. But, most people find it impossible to forgive lies, betrayal and deception in the one person that is never supposed to practice that.

Luedon is an apologist for cheating. That's fine, but do an original piece, don't rehash the bones of an old plot. It's well written, but can't give a repost more than a two.

but with Don as a partner pretending that he is somehow loving more by condoning (and he does condone her unfaithfulness) I can see how it's easy for Lucy to humiliate the twerp. Despite protestations to the contrary the marriage is no longer marriage- just communal living. The unique bond is broken. Trust is shattered.

No actual seagulls were used in the writing or either tale. No enlightenment, no evolved thinking, just a lot of denial and sophistry. It didn't seem brave to me, more like boasting. I refute it thus, Swinger Joe likes it.

the writing was ok and I reacted to it but not so much that i will go out of my way to read anymore from this writer.

I find it incredibly interesting that you consistently leave nasty comments on so-called "cuck" stories (and often "threaten" not to read any more of the author's material -- because I guess you think authors are only capable of writing one type of story)...and yet you have saved several cuck stories in your Favorites section. It's almost as if you secretly enjoy these stories.

If you actually read my comment (which you clearly didn't), you would know how I feel about LueDon's story from a moral point of view. As a fantasy piece, it's a perfectly fine story about flawed characters who ultimately achieve closure.

Unless you live your life in a closet, life is filled with tests and temptations. Imperfect human beings don't always act with perfect moral clarity. How we react to that imperfection reveals far more about our characters than the imperfect act itself.

""Now, I've got to finish what you started, and you can't be in this bedroom when the kids wake up. We don't have a lot of time, so on your back."

You can't be serious... Even if there was only a small chance her kids would catch her, what married mother would fuck someone else in her home?

And I apologise to those who thought it was unfair of me to re-edit. It was perhaps a bit selfish for me to want to fix a few things up (as Swingerjoe said) but it has been gnawing away at me for a while.

I had hoped to simply replace the earlier stories with the new version, but the system wasn't able to do that for me and it was re-published among the new stories.

Later on I will do something I didn't do with the earlier stories and delete all the irrelevant comments so that the commentary adds something usefully critical to the story.

I have another story about to be submitted which is a brief outline of a dilemma. I have been trying to write a full fiction story but without much success so far. It just doesn't seem to be my forte.

L

Did I read this right? Ray needs to be true to his family, wife and kids and wifey agrees with this. But she does not feel the same need to be monogamous to her own husband and children. I believe the story can be read both ways.

anon.1

Wow Lue! Brave one you are. You certainly shook the hornets nest with this one!

I admire this authors unapologetic attitude about her views. Her comments are always consistent, and she doesn't allow others to sway her standpoint.

I love the writing in this story. So descriptive. So alive.

I have to agree with others about this woman's (story character) moral compass though. The needle is firmly pointed at her. Whatever pleases her is what she feels is right. Infidelity is OK when she is the one doing the exploration. But her husband gets one shot to "discover his sexuality".

However, this is true of MOST people. How many times have any of us done things to people that we wouldn't accept being done to us? Anyone who says that they have never done it is lying or delusional. Most times, we don't even realize how bad it is until it is done to us. As humans, we often only care about things when it affects us. We fail to see the significance of it until we are made to feel it.

That is what happened in this series. This woman was lucky she had the patient husband that she had.

If they don't come back, they never loved you.

If they do come back, use condoms and maintain separate finances for the rest of your lives.

foolscap wrote:

**If they don't come back, they never loved you.

If they do come back, use condoms and maintain separate finances for the rest of your lives.**

no sorry. if they love you they wont cheat or cuck you in the first place

actually you and i are in total agreement. The above was a paraphrase of Richard Bach, who introduced the whole seagull nonsense long ago. I added the part about condoms and finances and should have added NEVER TRUST, NEVER STOP WATCHING YOUR BACK, and REALIZE THAT THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU, KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN, or FIND A REAL RELATIONSHIP WITH A REAL PARTNER.

I was being too self amusing. Sorry for the confusion

Anonymous: If my stories come across as trying to push a way of behaving onto others I am sorry, it is not my intention.

I am simply trying to describe a situation where a person behaved in a particular way which turned out to be OK for that person (and others involved) even though it may not be OK for other people.

I believe that it is others who are trying to push their preferred lifestyle onto Lue by saying that what she did was universally wrong and she must not do that type of thing. Lue is not saying that others should be like her. Others are saying that she should be like them.

L

Lue, you are universally kind and nice to me when you comment on my stories. I'm going to treat you the same way. The problem is, when my characters react in the ways I think they should react, you say that they're harsh, unloving, closed minded and a host of other adjectives that are pejorative in their connotation.

Now, I'll tell you that I think Lue's behavior is unloving, cruel and degrading both to Don, herself and society. Imagine a society where betrayal is admired, breaking promises is considered a virtue and cowardice is lauded. There has never been such a society. While everyone may be guilty of some of those things, and can tolerate these faults in themselves, everyone despises them in others. It's quite alright for me to betray you, but if you betray me, I immediately set up a howl of protest. Society couldn't function without contract enforcement.

You are an advocate for Lue's behavior and you show this every time you comment on another person's story and condemn the actions of their characters when they dispose of cheaters. You are exactly trying to push a way of behaving onto others. Why else do you comment on my stories and tell me my characters are harsh or unloving when they refuse to tolerate cheaters? I believe you're a kind, good person, but I also think this story is a personal statement of your philosophy and an attempt to pass it off as just a story is disingenuous. Please, feel free to tell me I'm mistaken. If Lue's thoughts and actions aren't your philosophy, let me know. Hope you have a wonderful day, and I'm sorry you're not treated with the respect in these comments that you treat other people. Randi.

Sorry but one couple in a thousand would stay married, just not sure why they would, vows, self esteem, lying, cheating mean nothing so that is not a marriage.

Thank you. You are far more erudite and kind in your comment. And yes, your observations are spot on.

Dear Randi, I respect you enormously as an author and as one who has a very different outlook on life to mine. I feel there are occasions when adultery can be justified or, even if not justifiable, it doesn't have to destroy a marriage relationship. You disagree with me on that, just as I disagree with you on incestuous relationships.

However, as you say, our disagreements have been conducted politely. So to get your rather scathing assessment was a bit of a setback. (Still polite though.)

But I still hold to my basic line that I believe that there are a lot of musturbators who say that Lue must not be like her stories paint her to be, whereas to the extent that I say must not it is only that others must not say that what she did was universally wrong.

I am happy for them to say it is wrong for them, that they wouldn't do it; but not to say that it is wrong for me, that I mustn't do it.

L

There are standards and behaviors that supersede individual choice, and even the agreement of consenting partners. If the wife was inflicting some sort of physical damage on the husband, or just pain, could we condone that even with the husband's consent? Of course there are some people who would say yes, to anything a consenting couple might choose to do to each other. That's what makes this story so embarrassing. We are dealing with people who are so selfish and egocentric that they measure the goodness of all things by how they personally benefit or reap enjoyment. So if this is just a private choice between you and your husband, why do you want us to read about it?

We all sin. But most normal people have the maturity and character to experience shame, guilt, and remorse. For someone to not only sin, but to want to display it, even trumpet it, is an act of egomania. Mild, we must hope, but no less pompous than any other bombast who shouts, I'm right because I say I'm right, and I accept no standard or convention that condemns my behavior. But what about the standard of normal everyday public honesty?

There is a reason marriages are conducted not only in public, but with required witnesses. And in this story the wife cheats not only on her badgered consenting drone of a husband, she also cheats on her children, her extended family, her lover's wife, and her community. Those concerns are only quaint to a self-absorbed ass who measures the propriety of their behavior by only one standard, does it make me feel good. And for a grown woman to be so blind to her own lack of basic decency and lack of shame, that's embarrassing. And the fact that she wants to keep her behavior a secret from her children, family, and friends simply certifies her inner guilt, that she struggles to deny or at least keep buried. Is it not telling, that acts she wants to claim as being evidence of adventurous liberation, she can tell only to strangers, anonymous voyeurs who encourage and promote her personal degradation for their own perverse pleasure? And she is so wrapped up in establishing justification and support from this anonymous community, that she cannot even understand that we are simply using her, in very much the same way she used Don, because her wanton sex and self denigration of her husband and marriage give us some sort of twisted pleasure. She is so blinded by her desperation to be accepted and vouchsafed, that she doesn't realize that what she thinks she is giving to us, we are in fact stealing. Just like what Don thought was a gift of permission and understanding to his wife, was in fact a bribe, a payment of body and soul, he thought he must make in order to keep her, to prove he Loves her. God, how do these people live with themselves?

Its just, embarrassing. You make me ashamed for you.

It seems the LW crowd has once again gone from agree to disagree to judgment and condemnation. And people wonder why the good authors have left.

To judge someone's morality based on your personal views wrong. Infidelity is wrong because of the hurt and pain that it causes. Right? But no one was hurt. The marriage survived. The couple is HAPPY. isn't that what counts?

Of course not. Because if you wouldn't be happy in this situation, then obviously they are fucked up for working through it. It can't be right for them and wrong for you. Marriage is a one size fits all arrangement.

Another point, I don't think she is trying to push an agenda. She is telling a story. Same as people who write Btb stories. She comments on stories. Same as all of you. Are you trying to push an agenda?

But of course, its only wrong when someone disagrees with the crowd.

@lex1

That’s just bullshit. You’re doing the same thing you’re accusing others of doing. You’re condemning those who condemn. So, I guess your morality is superior, right? My morality is that children should never speak in public. You can’t possible condemn my morality, because you’re so above that, so enlightened. Relativists always are, until they get hauled away to the death camp. Then they want to whine about it not being “fair.” My morality is that black people should sit in the back of the bus. That’s okay, because you can’t condemn any morality. My morality is that everyone who calls themselves lex1 should be tortured. You can’t have any problem with that. It’s my morality and all morality is equally good and it makes me happy. It might not be for you, but it’s okay for me. The truth is, you’re an idiot. You don’t believe any of that shit when it applies to you. You just spout it because you aren’t very smart. I guess you think Hitler’s morality was just peachy, right? Killing Jews can’t be seen as wrong. It made Hitler happy, and Jews aren’t really people, right?

Theft, fraud, murder, betrayal, they’re all wrong and immoral not matter what you say. Oh, that’s not your morality? If not, I’ll practice them on you. You down with that? Stop spewing bullshit and get a clue.

I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a point? It was lost somewhere in there.

I want to respond to you, I seriously do. You sounded so passionate. But unfortunately, I can't seem to comment on that, because you made no sense.

But you obviously wanted me to read that, so this is me letting you know that I saw it. And rest assured that I am sitting here with my head down, properly chastised.

LOL.

I know, right? I mean, who would ever want to read a story that includes characters that sin? I can't think of a single interesting story about a bank robber, liar, murderer, cheater, con artist or any character with any flaw whatsoever. I only want to read stories about perfect human beings acting perfectly moral.

Shit...I guess the Bible is out.

If your significant other did what Lue did to Don would your high horse be so high? Forget about morality what would your reaction be? Like Dons? Btb? Easy to comment from the sidelines but put yourself in Dons position and I don't think the majority of people would react like he did.Not to say its wrong but human nature being what it Is his reaction seems to be oddity not the rule

No I wouldn't be okay with it. But that's not the point. This story isn't about me or you. It is about Lue. HER husband was okay with it. SHE was okay with it. My point was that whether WE are okay with it or isn't the point. THEY are.

Why should THEY have to live their life according to YOUR preference? Or my preference? THEY are happy. So who cares?

No way will kids of these two be o.k. their parents are broken, they will be also.

Of course she's okay with it! She fucks a guy behind her husband's back and cuckolds him in her marital bed.What's not okay about that? To each their own? Is that what you are saying? I guess you are right but why would Lue have to justify her actions with the seagull pscho babble if what she knew she was doing was okay? Even Lue knew what she was doing was selfish and disrespectful but like you said its okay for them.

It was well written but was not my cup of tea, but I applaud the author's craft.

What I really wanted to say is good for you to have the bravery and the professionalism to admit that your story might not have been perfect and adding an extra coat of polish.

I have thought the same about several of my own stories, though I have not mustered the energy to do so.

You CAN edit your stories after submission. It IS a pain the neck, but it's possible.

I think you did it in a much more honest way though.

I went back to see what my comments were on the original version and I see you TRASHED all your prior stories...and more importantly the comments.

This just makes me sick. It is, of course, your right. However if I did edit my stories, I would either put a tag of 'edited' on them or as you did resubmit them AS edited so one could compare them. I would not treat the commenters this shabbily. (Cutting A commenter is cricket. Trashing ALL comments...weak)

One might suspect that you did that to erase criticism.

I really did not like that.

There was no way to replace the old story series with the new single story and not have the commentaries disappear as well.

L

That's Jonathan Livingston Seagull speak for, "There will be payback someday, and then we'll see how you like it." And she can wait and wonder when he's going to decide to do it.

OTOH, the downside is she may be too dumb to realize what he just told her.

sdc97230, if you read the follow-up story 'One Wounded Seagull' you will see that flying free had two sides to it.

But it was done in a far different fashion to the "payback" you refer to. Neither Don nor Lue believe in revenge or retribution. Apart from that, Don didn't think that Lue had done something wrong that deserved "payback".

Humans are learning animals. Lue and Don both learned from these experiences.

L

If they prefer sex with another person over yourself then the spouse would be hurt, jealous and feel completely inadequate.

It's a well written story but one that doesn't do anyone any justice.

It's like gravity. Jump off a cliff and you're going to hurt when you hit the bottom whether you believe in it or not.

If payback plays such a large part of your view of life that you consider it as inevitable as the effect of gravity, then I'm glad that Don is not like you.

I realise that a lot of Loving Wives stories focus on payback for perceived transgressions, but my stories don't because my characters don't think like sdc97230.

My characters value marriage and work within it to overcome any differences or difficulties that may occur. Those who go to separation, divorce or payback at the first hint of transgression (see the myriad BTB stories) clearly don't value their marriage relationship.

L

Call it karma, or Newton's Third Law. Actions leading to reactions.

Whether Don intended payback or not - and I'm not questioning you on that, because you're the author and they're your characters - when Don accepted Lue's actions as something that was acceptable for his wife to do, it also established it as something that was acceptable for her husband to do.

What made it payback was not Don's intention, but Lue's inability to be as comfortably accepting as Don had been.

"My characters value marriage and work within it to overcome any differences or difficulties that may occur. Those who go to separation, divorce or payback at the first hint of transgression (see the myriad BTB stories) clearly don't value their marriage relationship."

Total denial. In the first iteration and in this revision that Lue/Lucy didn't doesn't give a shit about her marriage. Lue cares about Lucy/Lue and ONLY Lucy/Lue. She killed the marriage for the sake of her self actualization. BTW millions of copies of Bach's trope were sold in the seventies and most are in landfills or being used to prop up bedframes by now. I don't know a single person who would admit having Bach on their shelves.. unless they live in Australia (a little land down under humor)

As much as you deny it the constant undercurrent in your comments and in your two posts is that self interest trumps relationship every time. You never, to my knowledge, have spoken to your rationalization of lying, deceit and betrayal in your personal world and life view and Lue rationalization for doing just those things makes her all the more reprehensible. She has no conscience that I can perceive.

I don't care who she fuck or even what she fucks (including livestock) but for you to justify the lies, deceit, manipulation, and outright betrayal is sad and intellectually dishonest.

If you are cheated at the grocery store are you as equanimous. I sincerely doubt it. Is Lou's marriage worth less than a jar of Nutella? seems so.

It's actually a cute, if somewhat naive, homily about not letting conventional thinking limit your aspirations. Where the story falls short of being a guide to living is that it never addresses the need to first ensure that one's aspirations are not harmful to others and the potential consequences if they are. The seagull wants to achieve more perfect flight, and is guided by other birds who have learned before him. Imagine the same story where the bird's aspiration is to rob the other birds in the flock of all their food and he falls in with other birds who have learned THAT before him.

The little homily "If you love something, set it free . . . etc." didn't actually come from Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Back in the 1970s we all attributed it to Richard Bach but there is apparently some doubt as to who came up with it first. Don in my story called it the seagull philosophy due to the believed connection with Bach.

The parody version:

"If you love something, set it free. If it comes back to you, it's yours. If it doesn't, hunt it down and shoot it"

seems to be the philosophy behind a goodly number of the stories in the Loving Wives section.

L

After I posted that, I realized that it probably describes half the stories in LW.

The term "cuckold" comes from just that. The cuckoo is a brood parasite that lays its eggs in the nests of other birds to incubate and raise the chicks. The victim is the cuckold. The cuckoo's success is largely dependent on the ability to deceive the not volunteer surrogate parents (not cuckoos themselves). Since the cuckoo eggs hatch quicker and the chicks are larger the other legitimate chicks are often pushed out of the nest to die.

The Oxford English dictionary definition of 'cuckold' is "The husband of an adulteress". Nothing more, nothing less. No statement about the reaction of the husband.

Something seems to have become muddled in the nesting/egglaying role of the parasitised bird when the Old French word for cuckoo was adapted to cuckold.

L

Ps: Do cuckoos parasitise seagulls?

1] the lying or lying by omission that affair first initially started with emotional bonding and THEN the sex. This isn't as egregious as it could have been because Lue fessed up when confronted. Still a 2nd degree felony for deception alone in terms of my standards for which I make no claim for being platinum standard.

2) Ray marking Lue with love bites and bruises. this would have sent me right over the edge. if you borrow a car it's expected that you return it with no dings or

dents and the same standard implies to lawfully wedded wife in my book. I personally would have been hard put to not mark up Don. this is a dicey area in terms of wife objectified as property.

Regardless to me, Ray was the first rate a*******. this is acting as if the husband doesn't exist or doesn't matter. Probably this was a calculated move because by now he probably knew either in meeting or in conversation that Don wasn't an alpha male and hence he took full advantage.

3) Finally Lue shrugging off Don's advances so she could be fresh for Ray. this came in tandem with Don being relegated to the guest room Saudi extramarital activity could occur in main bedroom. and if I have to put up with the b******* of having a woman under my roof, I'm first in carnsl line and no one ousts me from my bed . Oh yeah .Get a frigging motel room .

4 ) Ray's pregnant wife being kept ignorant of his extramarital forays. This is being a party to deception.

In no way do I want to put forth any absolute declarations of absolute right or wrong. These would have been my personal deal breakers. I get mutually sanctioned extramarital activity and that monogamy isn't for everyone. But to me, one thing that's inviolate is respect . My qualified kudos go to Luedon for making their relationship work far longer than most pairings do. It's a big world . you apparently have found a balance that works for you. God knows that's not easy.

The story, itself was fairly well written , nervy and very provocative. I thank them for sharing.

Some birds are better able than others to distinguish the cuckoo's eggs and hatchlings from their own. Those that are able to do so will either push the cuckoo eggs out of their nests or kill the hatchlings; in some species, eating the killed cuckoo hatchlings or feeding them to their own young.

Cuckoo eggs have been found to exude substances whose odors repel certain predators. Crows' nests in which cuckoo eggs have been deposited have actually been found to produce more successful crow hatchlings than those that have not been "cuckolded."

Would love to see someone incorporate these tidbits into a LW story...

The original analogy was specifically a man who impregnates the wife of another, leaving the couple with his offspring to raise. Over time, the term as expanded to apply to adultery even without the impregnation and offspring. Deception of the woman's husband is integral to the situation, just as with the birds.

The "hanging of horns" reference is taken from the mating habits of deer, where the stag is defeated in battle when another stag breaks off its horns and then forfeits its mate to the victorious stag. A man married to a woman who has cheated on him is seen as wearing false horns, because his real ones have been broken off by the wife's lover.

In the modern cuckold fetish, the "cuckolded" partner is a willing participant, and actually enjoys a thrill from the real or feigned humiliation that comes from role playing "discovering" the infidelity and/or being "forced" to participate in it. The keys here are the "willing participant," the "role play." Without these, it's not a fetish, but just plain cheating.

Etymology

late Old English, from Old French cucuault, from cucu ‘cuckoo’ (from the cuckoo's habit of laying its egg in another bird's nest). The equivalent words in French and other languages applied to both the bird and the adulterer; cuckold has never been applied to the bird in English.

DEFINITION

noun archaic

the husband of an adulteress, often regarded as an object of derision.

verb [ with obj. ]

(of a man) make (another man) a cuckold by having a sexual relationship with his wife.

• (of a man's wife) make (her husband) a cuckold.

lue certainly made her ersatz husband an object of derision, whether he agreed to it or not.

Only by those who make uninformed, stupid, moralising judgements.

L

Or at least one that describes the person as pitiable. That's because of the deception and betrayal inherent in the cuckold's unknowing and/or unwilling position. It's also why those who participate willingly in cuckold fetish roleplay wish to be addressed as a "cuck" (because they get off on the humiliation). A spouse who knowingly gives consent to his or her partner engaging in sex with others and is treated with respect by them (for example, in an open or swinger type of relationship) would not properly be considered or described as a cuckold.

In this story, Dan really only fits the cuckold description for however much time elapses between the beginning of Lue's affair and the conversation in which he lets her know that he's aware of it and grants his consent for it to continue. By essentially taking charge of the situation and making it clear that he is giving that consent and not submissively accepting something being forced upon him, he sheds the cuckold label and redefines the situation from a cuckolding to an open marriage in which he reserves to himself the same right to extramarital action as he is granting.

Yes, I know he thinks and expresses it in that gentle Jonathan Livingston Seagull way and not in the manner of an aggressively assertive alpha male, but the reality of what he's doing is still the same.

Then Don isn't a cuckold. There is no point in the story where anybody derides Don, certainly not his wife. (You are treading on dangerous ground here.) He also maintains the respect of Lue all the way through and her love for him grows over the time period covered by the story.

L

To me when Ray marked Lue, so Don can see that's a red flag. You wouldn't borrow a lawn mower and return it , the worse for wear. Yes Lue is her own person but the bites and scratches are inflammatory to almost every man. Asking Don to sleep in guest bedroom is another provication. If Lue and Ray's passion is of such sterling quality , then pay for a hotel room.

The next logical step could well have been asking Don to make them breakfast the morning after . Standards of course differ for individuals, but apparantly Don has a very high threshold for ignoring what many men would consider hurtful behavior I'm both Lue and Ray's part.

In this case Don is on the receiving end of Lue's deceit and betrayal, until the point where he makes it clear to Lue that he has not been deceived by her and has chosen not to see himself as betrayed by her either.

The derision would have been in the eyes of others, who had they been present in the story would have ended up being that flock of gulls who cast Jonathan out. I assumed that Don's reaction, which did not conform to the usual LW husband reaction to cheating, was part of the Seagull analogy

He simply chooses not to see himself victimized by what happens. And although he probably doesn't do it deliberately, he sets the stage for Lue's eventual karma by applying his Seagull-based philosophy to give himself permission for the same actions as Lue's should a set of circumstances he feels is appropriate present itself.

The author speaks of learning in these stories, and that's true. In this story, Lue learns that Don is more comfortably accepting of her actions than she expected him to be. And in the next story, she will learn that she cannot live up to that same standard of comfortable acceptance. Don, on the other hand, seems not to require any learning in either story, because he is already a fully actualized follower of the Seagull philosophy.

The primary 'derider' of Don was Lue herself.

People will THINK they are okay at the sight of blood, or are adult enough to shoot someone, or mature enough to see their wife fuck some guy in their own bed...and then it happens...and it turns out that they were NOT okay with blood, murder, infidelity.

It is this uncertainty which condemns lue. In the version I read (granted, not this one) she specifically WONDERED 'How will Don see this? Will he throw a fit at these marks? Will he be hurt to be thrown out of his own bedroom?"

Any one of these actions could have been the tipping point of her whole relationship blowing up, or causing the man she loved SO DAMNED MUCH to be in incredible pain...and she did not care. And she did not care that her LOVER was happy to try to foster these attitudes of inadequacy in Don. Did not matter if he succeeded. He wanted to hurt Don...and she was A-Okay with that!

And seeing he did not care she fucked around...she upped the ante. And upped it. And upped it again.

It is like poking a bump on someone else 'Does this hurt? How about this? How about THIS?" How much love and respect is inherent in that attitude? "I will not worry that my actions will cause you to be emotionally devastated and will in no way inhibit my pleasure even if there is a chance it might destroy you."

I am not sure what that is, but it is not pride, respect or any kind of affection I would countenance.

In fact, one could see this as a plaintive call for help on the part of the wife "WHEN WILL YOU CARE?" actively trying to find some way to hurt him or have him show that he gives a damn about her actions.

(This is not me trying to rewrite your story. Your story is a slap and tickle 'mature adults can fuck whomever they want to' morality fable. I am just looking for a rational reason for her to act the way she does)

The character may not have intentionally derided him, but she certainly didn't seem to care if her actions hurt him. Remember, she set out to cheat before she knew he was OK with it. In fact, she was SURPRISED that he was OK with it, which signifies the fact that she did it with the knowledge that he wouldn't have been OK with it.

Does that make sense?

No matter how you spin it, THESE two chapters show a one sided relationship of respect. She didn't care if he was ok with it BEFORE she did it. His feelings didn't matter. She went about her affair pretty unapologetically before he revealed that he knew.

Flip the tables Lue. Instead of the careful way that Don had his affair in the second story, lets say that he did EXACTLY what Lue did. After he did that, lets say that he turned around and said that he never lost any respect for her. Be honest. Would your character believe that? Would she have been as cavalier about it and not seen it as a betrayal?

Now, her love and respect for Don may have grown AFTER this situation, but in this story, she didn't respect him. I can't speak for her love for him, but she certainly loved herself a lot more. In fact, in this story, her love for him was a distant second.

I continue to note lack of comment on the author's part about the morality of betrayal, lying, and deceitfulness. I do see in the author's comments throughout these threads a total disregard for the notion of conscience or any morality at all. Apparently, if it advances the notion that the individual's "growth" and self-actualization justifies all- anything goes and to hell with everyone else. Sociopathy. Also it appears that in the Seagull "philosophy" there is no notion of right and wrong, just be the best narcissist you can. (It has been 40 years since I read any Bach, the book has long been gone along with my onkh and devil's tooth pendants, polyester leisure suits, and bell bottoms)

It seems to me that that Lue doth protest too much. Everything written is to justify behavior that is hurtful of others in a desperate attempt to assuage guilt for the ultimate betrayal of her marriage, her family, and herself.

A thoughtful, open minded approach to the range of circumstances that may arise in life.

And She would never come with me where ever I went.

Worthless as a wife, companion or even FWB... (no friend would do what she did)

Sorry without love and respect they have nothing to

repair their broken relationship.

Three things stand out here to me.

First letting lover mark her in multiple places to try to humiliate husband.

Secondly telling husband no when he wants to make out in his own home.

Third defiling marital bed and letting lover get so rough bed is beating against wall to again humiliate husband. What about kids finding out mom is a slut.

Lue to Lucy and back 

"As time went on, sex was mostly initiated by Don, with "Care for a cuddle?"

In other words wife becomes a frigid bitch.  Got it. Which of course justifies her cheating but not her husbands... (haven't read the seagull sequel but from comments guess wifey is not to happy with hubby screwing the other woman...)

"He took my hand and placed it on the front of his trousers. What was in there was big, and it was hard - very hard."

Ah yes the size queen. Poor small dicked hubby... 

"Thank goodness he hadn't noticed how late I was. I decided I wouldn't tell him this time."

Of course not... Why be honest with someone she thinks she loves... 

"Julie, Ray's wife, was well advanced with the pregnancy of their second child and there seemed to be some sort of problem."

I suppose the affair helped Ray's marriage too huh... Did his wife know and approve? Or did you not care or was she just clueless? 

"But the best intentions fade away where lust is involved."

Actually for decent people they don't. That's the difference between decent people and cheaters. 

" I told Ray about my concern for Julie."

How magnanimous.  What a saint... 

 "He said that she didn't suspect anything and anyhow what we did in our relationship didn't have to affect either his marriage or mine. I suppose I wanted to believe that, despite how silly the idea really was. If Don or Julie found out what we were doing, how could it not affect our marriages?"

Indeed. But neither of you cared. Damn the torpedoes. Full speed ahead. 

"And what will happen if you do have sex? You will still be you and I will still love you. I hope it won't become so serious that it takes you away from me and the kids, but it will eat away inside you and it will be more likely to take you away if I say you can't do it." 

Ok so Don's a WACC.  A wimp ass castrated cuck. Not much of a man... Likes to lick others guys cum out of his wife no doubt. 

"Don said "I see no reason why somebody can't love two people, so long as the love for one doesn't take away from the love for the other."

So while Lue or Lucy is off fucking Ray who's Don fucking? Nobody right? When push comes to shove, who does Lue pull into a lifeboat if there is room for only one? Who's life do she save when she can't save both?If Ray and Don both want her the same night who do she choose?(guess we know the answer to that don't we.) I get Lue trying to justify her betrayal of a faithful husband but it is really denial. 

"I told Ray to go to the main bedroom while I went to the spare room to get his things and kiss Don goodnight. Don was in his pyjama pants and sitting on the bed. I sat beside him to give him a kiss. He pulled me in close to make it a deeper kiss than I intended. He put a hand on my knee and started to slide it up my leg under my skirt. I stopped him and said "No, please, not tonight. I can't really do this with you when I am going to be with him." 

Wow.... What a loving thoughtful wife...no a cheating deceitful slut... 

"OK" he said, disappointment in his voice. "Tonight you're his." It was the first hint of disappointment I had heard from Don."

What a wimp. 

"He said it was obvious that what Ray and I had together was new; it was fresh, thrilling and intense. There was no way he could compete with that, and he didn't see himself in competition with Ray anyhow. It was never his intention to try to win. "But I don't intend to lose, either."

Just like wifey can't compete with younger sexier fresh thrilling intense woman. 

"... The astonishing thing was that my actions hadn't destroyed our marriage altogether. With any other man, it probably would have."

Lue doesn't have a man, she has a cuck - that likes sucking other guys come from his wife's nasty used cunt. Does Don get off on sloppy seconds? 

"Donald was guided by what he called the seagull philosophy: "If you love something, set it free. If it's yours it will come back to you. If it doesn't, t never was."

So Lue sets Don free to fuck other women right... I guess that's the next story...

"He had to be a dutiful husband to Julie and a proper father to his son and daughter."

Hopefully at some point Julie does to Ray what you did to Don... making Ray a cuckold too... after all,  all stale boring marriages with a frumpy old mother housewife needs to be rejuvenated  by the wife being a sexy slut with another man... Of course. The solution to all marital problems. Duh, its so obvious. But why does it never seem to work that way when a man does it though? After all a man can love multiple women right? A guy needs to know he's still got what takes to seduce women. Right? He'll be an even better lover, husband and father after his cheating... Yeah, right. 

"Javmor sayeth  ..But I still don't care for the main character. Rereading this story, and knowing the follow up story in which she throws a hissy fit when her husband steps out ONE TIME, makes her seem so much more selfish and hypocritical. "

duh... Is that an understatement. 

" For me, the issue with this situation isn't the extra marital sex, its the lack of reciprocity. "

That's always my issue too and why BTB stories are right on. No problem with a couple agreeing and mutually consenting... But did Julie ever consent? But cheating. Naw... Universally bad. 

"That is my issue with cuckold stories in general. I judge less on morality and more on fairness. If my wife were to have sex with another man, she damn well better expect me to be fucking the shit out of a woman of my choosing. Multiple times. "

Exactly... But make that women... Plural. Multiple times. 

"I believe that it is others who are trying to push their preferred lifestyle onto Lue by saying that what she did was universally wrong and she must not do that type of thing. Lue is not saying that others should be like her. Others are saying that she should be like them."

"Theft, fraud, murder, betrayal, they’re all wrong and immoral not matter what you say. Oh, that’s not your morality? If not, I’ll practice them on you. You down with that?." (sure wish I could use styled text, italics for quotes and bold) 

What makes something universally wrong - it's this: if you don't want it done to you it's universally wrong to do it to others. As your seagull story indicates what you did was wrong, one sided. 

"... , who would ever want to read a story that includes characters that sin? I can't think of a single interesting story about a bank robber, liar, murderer, cheater, con artist or any character with any flaw whatsoever. I only want to read stories about perfect human beings acting perfectly moral."

Most people prefer a story where the bad guy looses - the bigger the better - and the good guy in the white hat wins...  ‘Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker!’ with apologies to John McClane. Hence the popularity of BTB stories and distaste for WACC stories like this one. 

A final classic Bruce Willis quote from, "Live Free or Die Hard". Matt Farrell is in awe ‘You just killed a helicopter with a car!’, John McClane, responds, "I was out of bullets." 

"Then Don isn't a cuckold. There is no point in the story where anybody derides Don, certainly not his wife. (You are treading on dangerous ground here.) He also maintains the respect of Lue all the way through and her love for him grows over the time period covered by the story."

OMG... 

Please explain how one loves someone but betrays them at the same time? In your story Don the cuckold decides to become a willing cuckold but before Lue's cheating was revealed she had no idea if he would accept it. It might have ended Lue's  marriage but Lue didn't care. Hardly never ending loving. Lue appears as a self absorbed narcissist or even a sociopath not caring who she might hurt. Did Julie ever find out about her husband's affair? Lue's lust certainly was larger than any love she had for Don.  That much is clear. 

Spot on.

I think that you will finder readers of two camps: those who struggle with the moral and ethical considerations of deceit and betrayal depicted in luedon's stories, and those for whom lying and deceit are inconsequential as long as poor wifey finds herself recognizes that she is not "owned" by her husband.

You will also find those seem to think that for a story to be erotic, sex must be outside of marriage and cheating makes it spicier.

For they are happy in their conviction that what they believe is not only right for them, it is right for everybody else too.

I think it's time we had another Inquisition.

D

Absolutely. It's time to stretch out on the rack all those willing cuckolds that have lost their balls. And to all the whores that think they can cuckold a man without consequences, maybe the loss of a few fingernails will make them think twice before fucking around. Is that what you had in mind luedon?

I think you're on to something here. First one to take to the dungeon would be that bonny/vasty character.

One of the best stories i've come across.affairs that ended well and very real.

for they provide a service to the men without honor

you can spin it any way you want, but:

- no one forced you to marry and say the vows

- you knew it was 'till death do us apart'

- you and hubby didn't agree to an open marriage

- you decided strange cock was more important than marriage, love, respect

- your husband has some mental problem that makes him a wimp so he was ok with it

- you are a selfish, cruel slut and he is a willing cuck. the rest is rationalizing bs.

I can not believe you.. You make a good man a cuckold and then rub it in his face until he thinks it's a good thing... What a bitch you are. Also Ray is an asshole too. You wonder why he had a fucked up life...look no further than what you two did. By the way Lue, Seagulls are scavengers and garbage eaters....I think it suits you!!! I am a romantic and really like it when a women is sorry for fucking up and really wants to keep her marriage and husband...but you I think are a woman who thinks of herself first and everyone else second and if Ray wanted to keep fucking you that is what would have happened!!

I have been enjoying your stories so I hope that you will write more.

The moralizing over a story whether true or not is fascinating. BTW, how many mainstream movies and real life have men cheating and their material staying with them?!

In the context of the story, if she cheated but the marriage went on to survive and enjoy the loving wife then all is good. I like when an author discusses the inner thinking and turmoil of the protagonist. Especially if it's a female.

I'm pleased that you enjoyed the character development.

I tried in both stories to explore the emotional state of the first-person character, as I have been disappointed when reading many LW stories in which the characters simply do things with no apparent reason other than they just suddenly decided to do it.

If I was writing them again, I would take that theme further.

I am currently working on an explanation of Don's philosophy, which has been questioned by several commentators, but I'm a slow writer. Maybe in a month or so.

Lue

Wife consummately selfish. Husband extremely understanding, patient, strong, loving and naive. Story contained nice words to describe a Wife willing to risk her marriage for some illicit sex. It is possible that something similar to this could and has worked out in reality but certainly would not be the usual result. Most husbands are not as understanding and (insert adjectives from second sentence) as this Husband. Wife not only was willing to risk her marriage but she turned her lover's wife into a female cuck without any sense of guilt or decency. Of course all the negative stuff said about Wife applies to lover as well. Notwithstanding still a good story. My comments are not on the quality of the story but on the quality of the characters.

anon.1

I enjoyed this story from beginning to end. The sex nicely detailed, the emotions involved thoroughly thought out. Good work.!

The sex was hot and I liked how you didn't rush it. 5*****

The sex was written hot, Anonymous, because I thought that was appropriate for a story in a category that included "extra-marital fun".

Read the earlier comments on this story and see how wrong I was.

The two follow-up stories don't have hot sex in them. One was even submitted in the Non-Erotic category.

Lue

She decided feeling sexy was more important than being a wife or mother

Whatever else was said or written character states that declaration

True, Anonymous. Like all decisions, there were reasons for this one. (Reasons, not excuses.)

There is more to it than just this one story. May I suggest that you read the two follow-up stories?

Lue

I had already read the complete series.

I was not questioning either of their decisions merely making an observation...if I was I would have used ''excuses'' or at least rationaliztions instead.

Was in college in late 60s early 70s. read Seagul

I have always considered the ''set it free'' to contain certain implication.

In order to set something free, you must be restraining or restricting, by literal or metaphorical chains or cages.

Question I have contemplated...how long do you uncertainly wait for the return.

Last observation...not sure if he took as long to return as she did that she could have remained as ''philosophical'' as he was

Just the facts and a question

True story evolving as I write

A 29 year old married female with a 4 year old daughter-2 year old son had been suggestively flirting with 28 year old co-worker for well over a year.

Two days after Christmas 2016 she decided to leave and she found apartment for co-worker and herself, and they have been living together since December 27, 2016.

Do you think I should tell father who is scrambling to pay bills on single income-they were living paycheck to paycheck with the two incomes- and taking care of children on his own to just sit kids down and tell them Jonothan Seagull says if she was meant to be your mother she will come back to you?

Selfishness is bad enough, but flaunting misbehaviour and abandoning children is evil and unforgiveable.

While the first part of the Seagull saying says "set it free", the second part starts with "if it's yours". It doesn't sound like she's "yours". And the third part suggests "it never was".

At some time perhaps an abandoned partner has to accept the third part. The innocents in your story are the children. Protecting them becomes the sole aim of the wronged partner.

Lue

In the five decades since my college days and my introduction to the Seagull I have been puzzled that no one has mentioned the possessive-ownership aspects of that philosophy.

Even more perpexing given many of the devotees of that ideolgy also espouse that You Don't Own Me.

Perhaps I am not that perspicacious.

As long as no one is jabbing a condescending finger in my chest I do not pass judgement on the lifestyle choices of anyone. Religion, sexuality, marriage fidelity, political affiliation are personal choices that one can ony make for oneself and I wish everyone would respect those decisions.

Admittedly, that statement defines me as a citizen of NEVER NEVER LAND or is it Pollyannasville.

That having been stated, you are an artisan when crafting words into complex stories. The read, reflect, re-read, discuss(repeat sequence) genre.

√&√

For what they did to Julie. There is no excuse for it. They acted with immense selfishness and disregard for a young mother and her family. I'd like to see them spin that seagull idiocy to Julie. I'm sure she would have understood that it's actually a good thing her husband was fucking around on her while she was carrying his child.

Sad. But still 5 stars.

Okay, I don't roll that way, but I guess if it works for them, good luck to them.

Where I differ, as others have said, is the lover's wife. SHE never accepted this "arrangement!" Or did I miss something?

I have to admit that I WAS going to say that just because they were okay that that didn't make it right, but then I realized that would make me like the homophobes who criticize the gay lifestyle.

That still doesn't excuse the casual attitude towards Ray's wife.

Nothing excuses the behaviour towards Ray's wife, by any of the three main players in this story. (More Ray than anybody, but nobody was innocent.) Nothing really excuses Lue's behaviour towards Don either. She was just lucky that he formed the belief system that he held.

But there is a difference between an excuse and a reason. I hoped in writing this story that readers might understand the reason. It was obvious from the comments that I didn't succeed with many readers, so I tried again with The Husband's Story which expands somewhat on the background.

It's all been most interesting.

Lue

I can understand giving your wife permission to a point. If that's your thing, cool. The sneaking and lying, though, show utter disrespect. She doesn't deserve him. And that's not even considering the callous and hurtful treatment of poor Julie. Not voting because it was very well written, but I can't stand any of the characters.

Again - interesting. I read "Seagull" first so I kind of knew how it was going to end...

All people are a bit different and interpersonal sexual relationships have a lot of variety.

Somehow your husband here kind of reminded me of R.A. Heinlein in his most polyamorous days. But Heinlein (both personally in his own real life and in his many bon vivant characters) would never have been in a relationship where his wife had other loves and lovers - and he did not. This husband did - for all the time his wife was allowed her freedom? Hmmm.

This seemed to me to be more of a polyamorous threeway fantasy rather than a willing cuckold one.

What wasn't really addressed was Ray's poor pregnant and ill wife - kept in the dark while her oh, so "interesting" hubby was stealing time from her to play with the "have your cake and eat it too" Lue/Lucy.

This breaks the little morality "swingers" actually have. The two main characters here may not have been all that interested in involving others in their marriage - sexually - after this one guy, but I can almost guarantee Ray will be cheating on his wife Julie again - and probably pretty soon. But that's not "Lucy's" problem, eh? There's all that really sticky broader social issues morality wise - what "two adults choose to do with one another" is just a terrible morality - especially when the two adults are married to others, actually have children, have parents and maybe siblings....and on and on to many more than just "six degrees of separation."

This is a well written and well rounded story. I certainly know what you mean about the moralistic trolls, but I am happy that you have not let them deter you. It is gratifying and a cause for some optimism to read women writing explicitly and lustily about sex.

Of course, your character's situation and her reactions to it are hardly uncommon. The big difference here is her husband's reactions and attitude, and her genuine appreciation of him for it.

Just found it, glad I did.

I'm glad you found it too, even more so that you enjoyed it.

May I suggest that you register a name so that I can address you as something friendly rather than 'Anonymous'? Or, if you prefer to not register, put an identifier at the foot of your comment. I think it's nice to converse with people, not anonymice.

Lue

Doses of the type you mention are quite common these days. They are called Fecal Transplants and used to improve the gut biome. (That's bi ome, Anonymouse, not bi men.) But I suppose even the thought of that is quite creppy as you suggest.

Lue

It doesn't surprise me that your story is beautifully written as I've read your comments on stories here, but it did surprise me that it was so angst and guilt free. That's a departure for Loving Wives stories, which are so often morality tales where women were created to suffer for their sins. What's the point of having a female companion if you can't punish her? I made it almost all the way through the comments, too, but remembering "judge not lest ye be judged" took the fun out of them for me. I have reasons for not wanting to judge, although all of us do judge, every day, even when we think we aren't. I didn't cheat on my spouse but I found myself single many years ago and had married women coming on to me right and left. I succumbed to the temptation more than once. I'm still beating myself up over it.

Having got that dig in at the moralists, I thought the situation fraught with peril for both Lue and Don. It's mostly due to Don's unusual behavior that it didn't turn into a train wreck. I should have phrased that as a question- am I in fact correct in assuming that? I think it takes a unique and self assured man to react in the way he did. Infidelity is one thing, deception is quite another, and there was deception here. It would have bothered me. However, I recognize the magnitude of Don's gift to Lue- his love and trust. What's the value of that gift if she refuses it? (That's a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.)

I decided rather too late in life that a transgression such as adultery in a marriage is probably forgivable, although that certainly depends on the circumstances. I have polyamorous friends and they have good reasons for their relationships being what they are. Will those relationships survive? Damned if I know. Many do. I do think monogamy is not quite natural for humans. The evidence is there. So many couples have trouble remaining sexually exclusive to each other. So many spouses have strayed. And this isn't a new phenomenon- it's been going on for millennia. What's different now is the birth control pill and the emerging economic independence of women. I think sexual and reproductive autonomy for women was temporarily suspended at about the time we became farmers and settled down, accumulating wealth, along with the need to be certain that our progeny were actually our genetic offspring. Men now had a need to control the bodies of their spouses and the means to do it.

"Lue to Lucy and Back - Complete and Expanded" reads like a primer for the new age. It features evolved characters who incur the wrath of traditionalists and invite their derision. It's hell to march in the advance guard. You get shot at first, before the battle disintegrates into chaos. I think more couples than ever before are trying out new ways of looking at their partnerships, and I think that will continue. Cultural evolution doesn't stand still. It scares people- shit, it scares me too- but it's what's happening.

It's a great story, and thought provoking. Of course that's much of what makes it great. Obviously, you get five gold stars from me.

Is done belly up with both hands on floor slightly over 90 degrees from shoulders with both feet also on floor

Having read all 3 in series, no lue did not get same experience as don. Certainly not in duration, certainly not don hiding affair. Though his was not the affair lou's was.

Strange that before that one afternoon don had only ever had sex with lou. No mention how many men lou bedded in lifetime.

Also, don was more helping a distraught young woman get over breakup and being a sex educator. Lou was with guy who was cheating on PREGNANT wife. Had to make lou feel so good ray's tender words of endearment after first time together. Nothing makes cuddling much warmer than hearing guy you chose as first adulterous partner, whisper so tenderly Your a good fuck. Knew you would be a good fuck.

Cannot understand Hallmark has not printed up scores of card designs with that theme.

I recall a lue lecture about a female's need for emotional connection to orgasm. ''Making an Honest Woman'' wife was same as lue-no penile induced orgasm until lover.

Hmm...yet young woman had much different experience with don.

True the story is yours but inclusion of that ''fact'' did not match the built up perception a reader who have about don.

Nice touch kicking husband out of marital bed so you had more room to romp.

Yep now that yells respect for your husband from the rooftops. Lets everyone know how emotionally tuned all XXers are.

Humiliate husband by kicking him out of his own bed, refused to cuddle goodnight so you will be fresh for lover waiting in husband's bed...where he can hear him tell one and all what a good fuck you are.

Hypocritical series but well written hypocrisy

Lets see identifier hmmmm

Have set her up for vaunted excoriation sooooo

Mouse meese mice

Howabout

Vermin or rat