All Comments on 'The Slightest Opening'

it doesn't take much to get your marriage deep in doo doo, eh? And while it's true that the lies are a breach of trust, I doubt they would have done more than nick that trust if it hadn't been for the pictures. The situation certainly had a different appearance from anothers point of view, namely the P.I. And she projected that view to the husband quite vividly.

I guess it's a good thing he wasn't violent or the outcome could have been much different.

I like the angle you took for the story, removing the need for brain dead extramarital sex and the lame excuses that accompany the same.

It did go on to prove how easily the truth can be distorted, and how hard to correct even the simplest of lies.

My best regards

I know it was needed for the story, BUT.....

the brain dead wife was replaced by a brain dead PI.

Had she not been completely incompetent by leaving instead of doing her job, the situation would never have occurred. Had she stayed and done what she was paid to do, she would have given a completely opposite report.

All the wife had to do was produce the paper trail showing timelines left to exhonerate herself from the suspicions of infidelity. Her first lie was off-white because although she didn't have all the facts involved with covering up for Rita when she told the lie she had ample opportunity to find out what was going on before she committed herself to this situation. The second lie can be understood as a mistake in judgement. To mitigate its impact she should have posed the exact same scenario to her husband substituting Rita for Chuck and ask how he would have handled it. She and her husband's ire should be directed at Chuck's detective agency. They were so small-time and incompetent that one glitch on their end results in a half-baked report causing unnecessay confusion and consternation. If you're on the job, stay on the job, and do the job right....No Excuses! If the detective agency had any character or credibility they would have scrapped the report due to "circumstances beyond their control" and offer to provide surveilance with a complete report at another time. At the very least, they should have positioned someone to pick-up the trail and determine the location of the men involved in their investigation to determine the whereabouts of the wives since they are the ones that bungled the wive's surveilance in the first place.

has been mentioned in the Author's Hangout New Story Review Thread.

very good really...

thank god that the marriage counselor was far more competent than the PI small time firm they used.

as someone who use to be a PI.... I like the soppiness of the PI firm angle a LOT. Still the PI was a little sloppy but not all that off. The lady PI did Not see the wife take the cab from her home to marriott .... and did report that the car return home midday sunday.

techincally those facts are correct. It was the husbands who jumped the gun a bit... and I would of made the same conclusions....

Wow, now this was a very different take on a common theme. Well written with good character development for a short story and a plot that should cause all of us to take a breath and realize what even well meaning lies can do to a relationship. Good work, CT - great story.

But he had nothing to apologize for, she made the mess, and it should have fallen squarely on her shoulders. If I'd have been him, I'd have told the shrink to go fuck herself.

It's good to see someone addressing one of the real pain and anguish creators in adultery - the lies, misleading half-truths, and the divided loyalties. It's interesting to have someone who regards herself as being innocent in an adulterous mess suddenly find out that she is, in fact, in nearly as much trouble as her friend she's covering up for, and her husband's skepticism about the state of their marriage means she's at risk.

The business of the counselor and the husband's "forced" apology seems a little off-kilter, but I assume that the counselor was mainly using shock tactics to get them to relate to one another. The bottom-line question for the husband is this: is your wife fundamentally truthful with you? If so, you should credit her story if it makes sense. The recommitment to honesty AND candor is critical.

I do not disagree with cageytee's premise: honesty is fundamental for a successful marriage. I will however take the author to task on the following point: how is it proper to rake Lisa over the coals of morality for lying when Chuck is just as guilty?

In the author's own words, "Fearing Rita might not be the only one screwing around, he hired a P.I. who has been watching Rita..." How can we excuse Chuck's sorry behavior not alerting his best friend to his suspicions? Those suspicions were not trivial yet good old Chuck chose not to tell David who, if forewarned, could've acted to shortstop Lisa's involvement in the whole sordid business.

Is the author unwittingly applying a double standard? You decide.

I enjoyed your story. If you can trust your wife in external matters, you won't be able to trust her in internal matters.

Boyd

Very good take on lies and trust, where does it start and end and you can not put trust in a vacuum, and it will be tested sometimes severely. Trust is not an absolute black and white as in faith it has to be part of your own character and is a two way street.

Well done and maybe lets us know innocent omissions can be just as bad as the acts they are intended to obscure as we get pulled into them just as you do with an outright lye. Here we had the lye and actions of deception that are perceived as nonthreating and all faith is put asunder with revelation all is not known about what is happening around him.

The consular would have to feel as if they read the couple fairly well to try and shock thought patterns in them without final explanation to the client.

Very good story

Thank you

It was different enough to make a good read. Nice job!

Harry was really all for a story that I wasn't (^_^)

Don't get me wrong, it was a good story.... to a point.

To me the only thing the wife was guilty of was poor judgement across the board. First when it came to her friend. She shouldn't have kept her husband in the dark. Because in this story the worst case happened. She got lumped into what her friend was doing. But the second was that she carried on like she was the "innocent" party with her husband through out most of the story. Sure she was innocent, but she kinda put herself in the place she was in because she kept lying to help her best friend. Trying to take the high ground after repeatedly lying and getting caught usually has negative concequences similar to this.

But thats not what made me really not much of a fan of the story. It was the digs at the end you used:

...."Dianne was pretty rough on me in there and made me see that it was only my own petty fears and my male ego that were hurting me, . . .hurting us......

Ok, here's my problem with this. We as the reader know that the wife was innocent. We as the reader know that the wife talked her best friend into ending the affair, that she wasn't going to end until she was basicly scared into quiting it. But the husband doesn't know any of this in the story. Well she tells him, but he doesn't know if it's actually true. At best he just has his wife's word, which conflicts with what he was giving by his friend's PI. You never address the "why" he should trust her. Maybe a friend, a parking ticket, something that shows that she was innocent and he was wrong to throw all that her way, when she was trying to help out a friend. As far as the story went there was nothing that showed me as the reader the character felt bad for not believing his wife. Other than a counselor telling him he had a big ego. Huh?

Then you have the marriage counselor tear into them both like a rabid dog and "WOW" the magic bullet that is counceling tells them both how horrible they both were and David can't wait to beg for her forgiveness. Uhhhmmm, someone that was completely innocent, believes his wife cheated, was given proof that she may have cheated, and is so throughly hurt, after a single visit where the counselor tears into him so much can't wait to beg to immediately be forgiven so as he can? Wow

And as far as we've read he has no reason to trust her, save the counselor and his wife told him to believe what they say and not what proof he's been given. Ahhhhh no, sorry I can't go for that. It doesn't fit, save because I might want it to be a happy ending. And that's really all it was.

And thier friends. It was suggested (or hinted) that they might be getting back together (ex: they are still using one lawyer and are seeing a counselor together) ok this one lost me. The only reason the wife broke off the affair was that her friend convinced her too. Before that she was making plans to have Stan spend the night with her. This wife didn't stop for the right reasons, save because of the fear of getting caught. And it was suggested that these two could work out their marriage? I wish I could get away with all that. The planning, the sex, the intent to do it again, just because I was sorry I got caught and everything was going to crap now.

I would love to say I enjoyed it, because I did like the first page. Not because the wife was in trouble, but because between the two women she was the best character trying to make everything right for everyone. Her heart was in the right place, but she just failed in her attempt. But what killed it was the moral lesson of "If you don't forgive and forget quickly you have an ego problem" that felt as an undercurrent that I just don't agree with.

-Risq

It was different and it had a happy ending that I was 100% in favor of. I was glad this couple was together at the end, that their marriage was stronger than ever, and that they loved each other enough to get past the mini-crisis.

Thanks for writing.

You almost had me thinking they were going to split up - good twist with the hardass shrink. I've known a few who could do what your character did. Great read!

but I have to agree with the logical flaw pointed by Risq. First, in real life, Lisa would have asked David to walk a mile in her shoes if the situation was reversed involving him and Chuck what would he do? If he said that he would have not covered for Chuck after he had promised to end the affair we would know where David stands on honesty. Recall Lisa thought that there might be a good reason for the deception. Once she knew about the affair that when things got serious. At that time she should confided in David so that when Chuck came to him later with the PI report he would be able to tell Chuck that Rita had broke off the affair. Imagine how much better Chuck's and Rita's reconciliation would have been once the truth came out.

The problem is that Lisa did not trust her husband and she got involved in her husband's business partner's marriage. In her husband's eyes she could be as guilty as Rita. She confessed to lying repeatedly to him. I agree with Risq that David had done nothing wrong. Of course his feelings were hurt and his basis for trusting her was shaken. To have a stranger tell him that what he is feeling was not right is insulting. If the therapist had asked him to consider whether Lisa had been untruthful to him prior to this incident and whether if he was in her situation would he like another chance to prove himself to her then you have the making of forgiveness and moving forward.

What about the cab company fare records, possible restaurant witnesses and receipts to show that the girls had an innocent evening? If Rita and Lisa were going to have a foursome then why invite Janet (a total stranger)?

One thing I really about this story is the point that lies and deception ruin marriages not illicit sex (but that is also damaging).

Except for the ending you have a solid story. Thanks!

SleeplessinMD

Congrats - you grew with this story by not making the hurdle too high but it sure seemed like it to him in your words. However, without her friends colaborative comments as to her innocence citing the same circumstance as she did, he still only had her word which wasn't worth much.

I really wonder if that would be enough in most cases for the husband to fold to a totally faultful position as suggested by the lady marital referee.

That seemed like a quick way to swiftly make it better for both when there seemed to be much more in the marital trust issue to mend.

Still - much better than the prior somewhat predisposed male capitulations without really sound reasons.

Thanks Author - for the talented imaginative work.

With high Regard

First, congratulations on stepping away from the formulaic range of cheating wives themes - it’s refreshing!

Second – a rare compliment for me, for presenting an unusually effective work of a therapist! That was an example of the strategic brand of couples’s therapy. Aggressive and even manipulative intervention could be indicated to be conducted by an experienced therapist and if the therapist can see that

There are no deep or long term issues, and the couple is strong enough to sustain the manipulation. With her pressure on both sides you could say that

The therapist moved things along when she saw the opening as well! The overreaction of the husband did stem from his own insecurity. The therapist was right to remind him (actually the wife could have done it to) that 1. The wife’s intentions were always benign (even if mistaken) and 2. She stood to gain NOTHING personal from her lying.

Now if there is a residual suspicion, how about using the support of the good old polygraph? All U.S federal agencies use it to get security clearance for federal employees, and its being routinely used to support endless disputes. Plus, the confluence of the detective agency fuckups and nothing concrete to point specifically at the wife having a sexual liaison, combined with the friend’s wife having specific evidence to having an affair - all being at the same time and at the same place –it all fits the wife’s story. And again, the mere SUGGESTION of a polygraph test should have been sufficed. In this case the wife would have positively and enthusiastically responding to the option of getting an objective corroboration to her explanation. IMO the wife not so much dumb as gullible (Another refreshing break from the LW formula).

Again – my main suggested criterion to judge her actions: she stood to gain nothing from her lying. Yes, she should have been assertive and refused to cooperate with her friend from the beginning. She should have confront her by saying that by disclosing to her information SHE made the mistake of assuming that secrete could be kept from her husband. But it also looks a lot like ‘hind side 20/20’ combined with ‘good intentioned plan gone very bad in a way that no one could tell it would’ (Another good reason to never rely on lying).

It comes down to learning how to manage your life without lying. Not so much about cheating in particular. Thank you for combining interesting story with interesting questions.

Usually there is one brain-dead person: the wife. In this story, we have a brain-dead PI, an extremely stupid wife, a dumb wife, a less dumb counselor and a reasonably stupid husband. The brain power was apparently on a tight budget here.

You did not make a reasonable effort to make it an excellent story. I know idiots exist, but I do not enjoy reading about them. Just like ugly offensive-looking people exist, but they do not employ them in soaps.

Do better next time and try to have an intelligent cast. Intelligent people make mistakes too.

The story was a good read especially for no sex. I did have a couple of problems though. First the counselor was unprofessional. I agree with Risq on how she handled things. If I had met one like her she would have made the situation worse.

The second one was the PI. She did a half assed job. Her evidence was not conclusive proof of an affair only lying. She left before the wives and there is no inidication that anything else went on in the hotel room. She didn't verify what went on after she left other than when the car got back. Yes it was strange but what if there had been car trouble? She should have at least been able to verify how long the wives stayed in the room and from what the author wrote it doesn't appear that she could.

Finally I have been married 20 years and my woman is my best friend. I can tell her anything but that does not mean I tell her EVERY thing. If a friend tells me something in confidence then I will not tell my woman unless it directly impacts US. The wife covered for her friend and yes she lied to her friends husband and due to proximity to her husband as well BUT she was not unfaithful and he should have been able to see that w/o the counselors involvement. The web was tangled indeed but not to tangled to percieve the truth.

a dumb and dumb is sort of okay once in while,,, but Lit is so pervaded by them, you'd think there's no intelligent in the world!

but as Manigales said, you can still write about highly intelligent people who make stupid mistakes, too.

unfortunately, these people in this story don't sound too bright,,,

I went to Manigales page to witness how characters would possess more intelligence in a story and much to my surprise, there aren't any. You would make a wonderful professional critic. Someone who has all the "expertise" to be critical of the efforts of others but has a profound ineptitude to perform on their own. I hope cageytee sets Manigales' comment in the round file and forgets anything about it.

I thought this was well written. An interesting plot that you don't see here at lit and one that has some real world possibilities. Making the lies the actual problem between the husband and wife instead of infidelity was unique. The fact that the wife also struggled with the actual coverup was also a terrific decision. And, in the end, both parties realizing that each of them had made mistakes keeps this from being just another reconciliation nightmare that seems to be prevalent in the Loving Wife category of stories.

Keep it up and please don't worry about jerks like Manigales. Lit and the world are full of people who take pleasure in the bully mentality, especially when they are anonymous.

Reading these harsh judgements, I can’t help wondering what in particular was so dumb here?

A friend asks you in confidence for support in ending an affair. You are good friends with the person who asked you that favor, but you and your spouse are also good friends of the spouse of the person who has the affair and wants to end it. In your mind, you are doing your friend a favor to END the affair. You make the consideration that it’s not for you to go and disclose to the spouse of the friend who is about to end the affair that there was a one time sex. This is so dumb? We may disagree, but I think it shows somewhat of rigidity to not realize that there could be more than one consideration to ethical behaviors in reality.

Regarding the therapist, it’s one thing to say that one would not like this kind of therapy for one self. But when we review a story we can not super impose facts over it. The story clearly indicates that the therapist DID help them and rather effectively. She took the husband out of his funk, and REGARDLESS of whether he would or would not have done the same (That is really immaterial). The wife did not aim nor acted in malice. She erred in judgment as she tried to help her friend. WOW! Like no one else ever made any mistakes in judgment!

The husband was stressed and felt threatened from the appearance of things; that’s normal – and with the help of a third party he regained proportions. WOW! like no one ever looses proportions under stress!

The wife was naïve ; too eager to help; did not have the foresight (and yet she did have some correct gut feelings that told her that not telling her husband is wrong) WOW! Like no one else has to go through doubt ambiguity and confusion at times.

To the author - what a sensitive and correct depiction of practical dilemmas and conflict resolution!

No simplistic tags “ DUMB” vs., “genius”- just real people for a change. Bravo for raising the bar in building credible characters, and plot. The rest will get used to the complexity in time.

Sorry for this second comment, but just finished reading Kolkore's comment and I couldn't agree more. Too many readers insist on logical, reasonable behavior from the characters in a story. It doesn't always happen in real life and certainly not in fiction. Kolkore hit the nail right on the head. His comment was reasonable and rational - a thank you is due him.

It was done so well as an innocent try by a wife to help stop a friend without turning the whole family upside down. Bad results and that is what made the story interesting and a great read. Some leeway has to be given in fiction but each person has their own idea how much is too unbelievable.

I do think a fantasy story has to be close to believable to be enjoyed or it’s just a Sci-fi type or humor or to much fluff or dribble. This was a great story of imagination not out in left field at all.

Thanks for the entertainment

PT

I for one am glad that they finally put the problems of their marriage to rest. The lies she told were not good, but clearly throughout the story she loved him and appreciated him more and more. She saw the disaster her friend was in and clearly didn't want that for her marriage. Your ending is the way it should have been. Congrats.

BUT

Imagine this little twist. Rita and Chuck through extensive counseling end up saving their marriage and live happily ever after while Lisa and David never are able to get past the mistrust caused by her lies to him and end up getting a divorce...... hmmmm now that would have the critics talking wouldn't it?

It goes to show, any relationship can become fragile when you don't pay attention to details and when you don't take into consideration how your actions might affect the one you love. Truly she almost fucked it all up.

Thanks for your efforts Cageytee, I really appreciate your writings.

Charleybear

Sorry this turned out so long - but I ain't cutting any of it.

Can one of you more perceptive readers post a quote from this story showing where Lisa lies to David?

You guys taking the high moral ground about lying? - save me the crap. Was there ever a man who wouldn't quite happily give his mate(s) an alabi saying they were out golfing when they were only drinking - if the wife or 'significant other' didn't want him drinking? Or if it was the other way around he was drinking not golfing? Or some equivalent story to keep him out of trouble? Flat tyre? Late because of heavy traffic?

You never had a cigarette secretly after you supposedly gave up? Never had that diet breaking snack you didn't mention? Never agreed that dress she really likes looks good, even if you don't really agree? Never wore that shirt or tie you hate because she gave it to you and you wouldn't say you didn't like it?

This "absolute trust with every syllable uttered and with every fibre of your being" rarely exists in real life - so why expect it of a fictional character?

An anon poster below put things quite well when he said:

"Finally I have been married 20 years and my woman is my best friend. I can tell her anything but that does not mean I tell her EVERY thing. If a friend tells me something in confidence then I will not tell my woman unless it directly impacts US."

I hate having to go back and comb a story when others completely misinterpret it. But I looked through this one again. This is the circumstance of the first supposedly marriage wrecking lie, and I quote verbatim from the story...

"It began when Rita called me in a panic one afternoon and, after promising to explain later, she asked me to confirm with Chuck, if he called, that we had been shopping until store closing time at 10:00 PM a couple of evenings earlier.

Rita and I had been shopping that evening, but she left just after 7:00 PM for an "appointment".

As it was, Chuck never did call to ask me, but the following weekend, he did casually mention it while the four of us were relaxing in our hot tub after playing 18 holes of golf. Remembering how frantic Rita was when she called, I answered that we would have shopped till 12 if the stores had stayed open.

I could feel the relief emanating from Rita and I was privately embarrassed at how easily I had lied to Chuck, and in front of my own husband. I justified it thinking Rita had planned some kind of surprise that she didn't want him to find out about too soon."

Let's put the reality shoe on the other foot - David and Chuck had a couple of extra beers last Sunday after golf, and to save an argument at home Chuck says to Dave "I'll tell Rita there was heavy traffic on the bypass". The next weekend in the hot tub Rita mentions the guys were late back from golf last Sunday. Do you really want me to believe David would have said "Yes - we had a few extra beers before we came home"? Or would the reality be some off-hand comment about the traffic??

So, we have Lisa covering for Rita because she thinks is planning a surprise for Chuck.

BLOODY HELL - That's what I really call killing the trust in your own marriage!

Every surprise party/celebration ever held for a spouse, by that logic - weakened or killed a marriage? PUHLEASE!

What was Lisa's reaction once she found out about the 'affair'?....

"I told her how upset I was and that although I wasn't about to run and tell Chuck, I would never, under any circumstances, lie for her again. I asked her to look at herself and her life with Chuck and see what she was risking over this "excitement"."

Is there any part of a marriage 'contract' that says she should run to David and say, "Rita is fucking around on Chuck"?

Remember also, Rita is her friend - since high school. Chuck only came on the scene in college. Lisa has no obligation to Chuck, except that he is her friend's husband.

And, let's face it - Lisa laid it on the line quite correctly to Rita - actually forced Rita's hand.

Rita told Lisa ".....she was trying, but wasn't sure how, to break it off without letting Chuck find out and without upsetting Stan too much." "Now she was trying to figure out how to end it without upsetting Stan so much that he would let her terrible secret out. She had even thought of confessing to Chuck and hoping he would forgive her, but she couldn't bring herself to do that fearing it would hurt him badly."

We have to accept that as fact - it is a straightforward statement to us from the author (thru Lisa). The truth of the statement is borne out by the actual events on the night in question - which are amazingly different form those reported by the fraudulent PI.

Now, is this next really her second lie???

"Feeling secure that it was best for all, I stood by one evening while Rita told David and Chuck we were going to get together to have dinner and see a movie while the two of them were in Savannah at the end of the month."

So, she never told David anything - maybe a 'sin of omission', but not quite a lie by any stretch of my imagination. You must remember her motivation - she was saving her friends' marriage, nothing else!

So - she never lied to her husband. She did cover for her friend - as most people would. She even convinced her friend to cut the guy off.

Which brings me to my second point:

Without the brain dead (maybe more accurately fraudulent) PI there was no story here.

A 10% competent PI would have resulted in a big relief for Chuck she didn't cheat, but blew the guy off.

So, what we really have here is a brain dead husband. David asked all the wrong questions, and let Lisa say nothing but yes or no to his stupid questions. Then he goes off the deep end.

I originally liked this story, but the problems with trust were all David's - he didn't trust Lisa.

Will you all tell me he was correct in not allowing her to tell him the real sequence of events.

David is a fool, he obviously doesn't deserve a good woman like Lisa.

And the psychobabble of the supposed counsellor was utter crap - all thsi 50% each blame bullshit.

Initially I enjoyed the story and thought it a reasonable reconcilliation, but this closer scrutiny has shown David as a pig headed fool who was too stupid to look at the facts.

As for the PI, I'm certain any 5% competent lawyer could make out a good case to sue her for a fraudulent report damaging Lisa's marriage.

This story was a good one, however I cannot rate it as the highest. It clearly shows what is wrong with our society and its man-made dogma that creates fear, not love, between adult human beings.

because I didnt know it was going to be a debate :) Since nothing seemed badly off kilter, I didnt think either the husbands or wifes actions would be open to so disparate interpretations. Sorry for the double post but this is how I read the story:

- dont think the wife did much (anything) wrong. She didnt cover for her friend having an affair and talked her out of it when she found out what was going on.

- dont think the husband was all that out of line. Maybe his reaction was exagerated to allow the storyline the author wanted, but there was a fair amount of circumstantial evidence against the wife.

The only things I didnt think were perfect with the story was the husband beating the 'you lied to me' line to death and the shrinks line about petty jealousy and fragile male ego. I think that the problem they had should have been based on doubts the husband had based mostly on circumstantial evidence, not on his wifes proven lack of truthfulness. The male ego bit might be true but I think it would be more likely to push a guy the wrong way if he was fence sitting rather than encourage him to see the light. Maybe its just me projecting though.

Anyway, like I said before, I think it was a very good story and fairly well balanced. Some exageration (nothing wrong with that to make a story imo) wrt the husbands intransigence but he did have reason to be suspisious (not wifes fault - just bad luck). A bit of luck when it came to the PI but, again, nothing wrong with that to make a good ficitional story imo. In the end, neither was really to blame or a super ass about anything (not too bad a one anyway). Maybe the wife took a little more than her share of the blame when she told the kids it was her fault but it was a lot closer to being equal than most stories where the wife cheats and the husband apologises. Thanks for writing.

caqgeytee:

Women will go to the mat for their girlfriends (regardless of the effect on their own marriage), which tells you men where you stand in the scheme of things. It isn't that they love you. You are their meal ticket, and no lie is too great to keep the money coming in! just another sucker, sucked in by a sad tale. When all is said and done, "The lady doth protest too much, Ronnie W."

I'm sorry, but I just can't go higher. The first page of this story was brilliant! I really enjoyed it and couldn't wait for the ending. Then it was just about getting hit over the head with the, "total honesty" thing over and over again. I could have believed any direction you took this in (even if they broke up because he just refused to believe her), but like Kanga said, she never actually lied to him (and what she was concealing was just a friend covering for another friend, certainly nothing damaging to their marriage). There was no reason for her to constantly beat herself up the way she did.

She should have been angry that he wouldn't believe her. If the situation was reversed and he went with his buddy to support him and as a witness that nothing was going to happen, then the wife went apeshit and put him through two months of hell (and even exposed the kids to the problems), we'd be seeing a completely different tone from a lot of the commentors. Bottom line is that he has to decide if he has enough trust in his wife to believe she can be alone with a man without falling on her back. If he doesn't, there isn't much of a marriage.

I thought it was an excellent story idea and a wonderful start, but I just couldn't go with you on what followed. I did like that you tied it up with him asking for an equal partner instead of using his forgiving her as a club to beat her into submission.

A bit different in tone and a couple of new slants.

I thought he was too challenging in his initial "interrogation." If he had been calmer the whole thing would not have unnecessarily spun almost out of control.

I thought the counselor was over the top with the comments to both of them. That sounded more like a dad when he finds his new teenage driver has just totalled the family car doing something stupid.

Yeah, she should have been more open to her. But, yeah, he should have been more loving and trusting. Was there anything in their past relationships that would lead him not to trust her?

Regards, DJ

I liked your refreshing story.

<p>

I know your story is not new, and my comments follow the tone of others, also.

<p>

We all can (with hindsight) say that your heroine should have acted differently, but would we not, do we not, also make mistakes in our personal lives and relationships?

<p>

Why I’m commenting is the “almost” excellent job you did on with the therapist. After having heard each side of their stories, I feel she had no other option then to take the hard course of action with each of them that she did.

<p>

In fact, this small affair, and its results, she could easily see as a healthy and healing opportunity for this couple. Her stepping on both of their toes to do so was a needed exertion of “parental corrective action”. Yes, they both were and had been acting like children, and she was forced into playing the role of parent.

<p>

After your heroine found out about the affair, she should have confided in her “partner” and asked for his help. She acted selfishly and in mistrust towards her “life partner”, the man whom she should be sharing her life with.

<p>

He should have taken a good look at his wife in that picture and seen her very defensive posture. That alone should have told him enough to question the erroneous information of the P.I. He should know his wife well enough to see in that picture her “body language” and understand that the P.I.’s conclusions were wrong. He trusted the words of a stranger over those of his “life partner”, his wife. He seemingly “wanted” to think bad of her.

<p>

Why I say “almost” is that your therapist did not follow up with the couple, into the core issue of their mistrust and miscommunication with each other. Though hinted at in your story, there was far more for the couple to learn and take from this “affair” than what they seemed to have. Such an “affair” can be a mile-stone accelerating the depth this couple has in their relationship, beyond levels of intimacy and understanding they had known before.

<p>

I was going to give you a five for this story, but after having read some of the comments, I feel I can’t do so. I feel that you spent too much of the story in chronologically setting down the action details, and less in describing emotions, and behaviors. If you had spent more time with the emotions and behaviors, comments such as from Risq would have been “uberflussig”, unnecessary, and your conclusion and the behavior of the therapist more logical.

<p>

Yet still, one of the best “Loving Wives” stories I’ve read so far. There was only too little detail for my taste.

<p>

Ps. Though my verbal vote is less than a 5, my physical vote remains a 5 because I know from experience that too many let their emotions control their voting and a good story suffers. I would hope to see an “H” beside the listing of this well worth reading tale.

behave like teenagers? She lies to help a friend do the right thing and this little boy acts like she cheated on him? Moves in to the spare room? She should have told him,"you can't handle the truth!"-50 points for making me laugh! Pistolpackinpete

I don't know which I liked better, your story or the comments to it. Honesty is very important, but so is some privacy. My wife would have told me after she learned of the affair, but I understand why it didn't happen in your story, you justified it pretty well. I do agree with many others that the "you lied to me" angle was played too hard. I try to put myself in each role, what would I be angry about? It would have been my belief that she had been cheating. Her story could have been checked out, call the taxi company, check the restaurant, even do a lie detector test. Once I found out the truth, I would have been proud of my wife working to stop her friend from cheating again. I'd want her to keep me in the loop next time though. I found comments about cheaters and liars amusing. I wouldn't want to have anyone I love married to them! They remind me of a Cajun joke of the 19th century. A newly married couple is traveling to their new home in their wagon. The horse acts up when crossing a stream and the husband gets out, yells at the horse then leads them safely to the other side. Then he grabs the horse's harness, points his finger at it and yells, "that's one!" His wife is shocked and begins wondering about her new husband. Later down the road, a dog barks at them, the horse rears up and nearly upsets the wagon. Her husband jumps out, grabs the lead then moves them out of range of the dog. He then yells at the horse, "that's two!" The bride is now seriously concerned! Finally they make it to their new homestead. She gets out and her husband starts leading the horse to the barn. The ornery horse deliberately tries to step on the man's foot. In a fit of rage, he yells, "That's three!", then pulls out a pistol and shoots the horse dead. His new bride has had it and starts yelling at him, "You idiot, what are we going to use to plow with ..." Interrupting her, the man looks at her and yells, "That's one!" We all make mistakes, some big, some little, some get blown out of proportion. This is where communication, repentance and forgiveness come in. Without it what marriage could survive? Thanks! - Ttom

I have a real problem with the ending. The wife is so contrite and remorseful that she ... allows her husband to believe he's the "bad guy"? Well, they may have reconciled after this incident, but I'm left with little doubt that something will happen again in the future considering how little she seems to respect him and his pain.

Her salvation was that her husband is a wimp. There were too many variables, to ever trust her again. If you don't trust your spouse, end it.

Good love story, good morality story, good "no good deed goes unpunished" story, and good redemption story. All told, an excellent and well written saga.

This is an incredible story about what happens if trust if violated. Obviously loss of trust is every bit as cancerous for a relationship as cheating, maybe even more so. Great job!

she believed what she wanted to so fuck and move on

It's amazing to see the split between men who so easily decide on vengeance and destruction, and men who consider understanding, resolution and perhaps reconciliation, when relationships are threatened.

I wish I were more of a psychologist to understand the differences. I'll have to look it up, starting with Wikipedia.

When the usual suspects call for trashing the wife or even harming her, I wonder how much reality there is in their own lives, or are they just into fantasy power plays? Maybe they have little self esteem or sense of worth in their personal lives?

I thought you only blew doggs?

A strong man wouldn't have doubted himself so much he'd grasp at straws to convince himself his wife _might_ be having an affair. A loving man might have been able to excuse his wife's acting in an entirely human manner, and a caring man would have seen how much pain he was inflicting on the wife he claimed to love (but not trust).

Truly honest people do not ever think other people are lying to them, because they assume everyone else is telling the truth, like them. Conversely, liars assume everyone else is lying to them, because that is what they'd be doing in that situation.

If, as the other comments have already stated, the intention here was to set up a morality play, then like every other morality play, the characters come across as wooden and caricaturish. If that was not the intention, however, then they're entirely too unrealized and ill-defined.

Ultimately, this story suffers from an all-too-common problem: too much telling, and not enough showing. For that reason, the story rings hollow and feels more than a little rushed and unsatisfying.

True. This is a good story about needing trust in a marriage. The only mistake I see Lisa really made was going with Rita to that hotel room. Rita and Lisa should had met them in the restaurant or somewhere public. Then David would not had been in uproar as much. True, she lied about Rita's one night dallinace by covering the time period. But Lisa thought Rita was going to give a suprise to Chuck. Do people tell a person having a birthday about a suprise birthday party and the suprises that goes with it. As for telling David after finding the true purpose of it, that is a hard judgement call. If she told David, that would had put in a tougher position whether to tell his friend or not - probably would. But Rita promised she was calling it off and she apparently did. Lisa was there for support. That is what a friend is for. It is just unfortunate they were stupid enough to go to a hotel room to do this. If they had not, this all would had happened.

huecuck saw some major cucking in this story, wishful thinking on his part perhaps or maybe just poor reading comprehension. Oh well, good story.

which means the author did some good things.

I just thought it was a really creative story about love, trust, cheating and forgiveness.

I didn't think any of the characters were overly stupid, deceitful, unreasonable or untrusting. In hubby's shoes, I would have been really shaken by the information I received, and would have had a hard time trusting wife. That said, in wife's shoes, I might have acted the same way, and I would have guilty as hell about it if confronted with my duplicity (if not outright lying to hubby), and helpless as I was confronted by the evidence which suggests that I was cheating, too.

I felt the counsellor's "dressing down" of the couple seemed a little heavy-handed and a simplistic device for bringing about reconciliation. And, again putting myself in hubby's shoes, what happened to allay his fears/suspicions about wife cheating on him, as he originally thought?

One mistake does not end a marriage. Just one lie could, however. Luckily everything worked out in the end.

Fuck

I hate happy endings.

HA

guzzling spicy jizz, he greased up his bunghole, betrayed!

This wife WAS unfaithful. Yeah, she never touched another man; but she did lie to both husbands, and did help her friend cover up her affair. The wife CHOSE to help the other wife, including lying to her own husband AGAIN. The wife decided that it wasn't a deal-breaker for the friendship, and intended to help the other wife to keep her hubby clueless forever. If her friend's husband hadn't found out his wife was cheating, this wife would have known the "secret" each and every time the couples got together, and planned to keep the friend's hubby a cuckold forever. She was OK with KNOWING the friend's husband had been betrayed. Any friendship with her friend's husband wasn't important- she owed him NOTHING. She felt him living with his cheating wife was OK. Being unfaithful doesn't require ANY cheating or sexual activity. A spouse must have faith in their partner, and once lies, not little white lies, but meaningful hurtful lies are discovered- faith, which IS the trust a marriage is founded upon becomes almost impossible. Makes me wonder just what this wife would have done IF her friend had decided to enjoy another night with her lover in that hotel suite. Would she have told the husband, or would she have just gone home, and remained silent about her friend cheating?

Another story where the wife gets it right. Unfortunately the two words are often the same (wife and liar).

I miss reading new stories from you. These stories were among the BEST. Thank you for writing.

A smart counselor. Five stars.

Especially about something like what she did. She should have flat out told the friend that if she was going to do something like be unfaithful to her husband to not count on her for support. Going to the party with the friend was absolutely stupid on her part and was a recipe for disaster. Why did the friend have to go to the party to break it off? Her not showing up would have sent the message. I don't like the fact that you made the husband responsible for his being lied to and for not forgiving his wife. Councilor was full of shit. The wife brought it all down on herself. Hubby was having a hard time getting past the loss of trust. And that's where lying being a marriage killer comes from. When trust gets tossed out of a marriage, love follows close behind. Read that somewhere but can't remember where. Good sentiment, though.

Another blame the victim story.

The husband had every right to be disbelieving.

What a bunch of sanctimonious jerks the commenters are. What she did is what most would do as confirmed by the husband's admission. I guess that you are perfect, but we wouldn't have had a story if she hadn't lied, would we?

I'm only guessing but Anonymous 11/11/15 reads like a RAAC, their choice not mine.

For me two things are paramount:

1. Lisa enabled and conspired to assist in a spouse cheating on their marriage vows.

This is unforgivable.

2. Lisa lied to her spouse and the offended spouse cold bloodily and did not recant her lies until forced to by being outed.

Here lies the remnants of the trust so needed in a marriage, broken, tarnished and valueless.

No, you don't have to be "perfect" to be moral, it only takes character. Something apparently missing in the previous poster.

Just My Opinion, YMMV

Anyone out there who say they have never lied are themselves liers. It is what the lie is about that is important. David admitted that if it was Chuck he would probably done the same thing. I think most people would in this situation.

The ultimate lie is "No I didn't cheat" by Chuck's wife albeit that hers was a lie by omission.

David grossly over-reacted to what his wife did. So what if she did something to cover up for her friend; that shouldn't have affected his relationship with his wife. He needed to man up long before he actually did!

Lisa told the lies. For David the perception was the reality until the perception changed.

Blaming this problem on David is pretty indicative of a very cavalier view of marriage and commitment that is sadly pervasive among the millennials that I have met.

A story well told. Thoughtful and challenging. Thank you.

It seems you love the way of cuckold/wimps!!??

I am not taking away from the hit reality show "What would you do?" from MSNBC, however it does fit this story. Some have posted about cuckolding which really if you read the whole story and not skimmed through does not apply to the main characters. The secondary characters Chuck and Rita, yes but not in an insulting way, everyone forgot that Rita did not continue the affair and in the end both engaged in marriage counseling to salvage their marriage. The real plot for me as I read it (my opinion) David per his own counseling placed more into his friendship with Chuck than Chuck did with David. Clearly David would carry water for Chuck but in reality Chuck already knew Rita's plans, hired the P.I. and after his conversation with Lisa knew in advance of the Marriott rendezvous that Lisa might or is the second woman in question. Did Chuck quickly inform David? Clearly not and kept his secret until after their Savannah convention. Is what David did by nearly destroying his marriage over nothing something to ponder? I would, Clearly David needs to sit down and readdress just what is a friend and create his own guidelines. Chuck might be a friend and subordinate coworker but the line has been drawn. The big issue, just what a spouse supposed to do when presented with a crisis similar to what was encountered. That is a moral and ethical decision, can it be answered by one answer? Perhaps yes, such as... is the affair that Rita will engage in harm, ruin or destroy the marriage of David and Lisa? clearly NO. will the affair damage the working relationship between David and Chuck, Maybe, since Chuck does not carry his friendship of David as high as David does with Chuck I would have to argue that NO the affair will not affect the working relationship. Chucks working abilities maybe damaged due to distractions but life goes on. So in final this story shows how small things not involving the marriage should be kept out of the marriage and perhaps leaving the good Samaritan thoughts to those professionals and focus on our families and homes.

As I read the story I kept thinking what lie did she tell her husband. I couldn’t think of any. Well all these posters were just taking it on face value that she lied. Come on just name it.

Kanga40 was absolutely correct and was the first one to get it right. Why does everyone just skim these stories and then get their little girl panties in a wad.

I am starting to really question most of the people on this site. They can’t read very well, they have a holier than though attitude and think they are so much better than everyone else, don’t know what Love is, and have no grasp on reality.

Any wife that would lie like that is going to cheat in the future.

They bought the therapist a week long stay in the tropics. She was Good! No way would I ever trust the wife again.

You don't think she lied? Maybe not to the letter of the law but she did lie by omission. She 'inferred' that they were shopping late that first night. She said they were going out but failed to mention that they were going to a hotel to meet guys that were not their husbands. You are so hung up on the fact about the exact wording of what they said that you fail to see her intent.

I would hate to be in a relationship with you. You figure what the other person doesn't know won't hurt them. How about going by the spouse rule - If you wouldn't do it in front of your spouse, it's wrong. She helped her friend lie about an affair and that made her as guilty as her friend.

How could the big reveal happen (when hubby confronts her) and yet she, the protagonist wife, is never allowed by the author to say to her hubby that she did NOT know what the girlfriend had done when she initially lied to the girlfriend's husband?

Yes, she lied, but she didn't understand at the time that there was out and out adultery involved. She herself had speculated that the fib was about a surprise of one sort or another.

In a case such as this, especially when the protag didn't even cheat sexually, there must be some degree of lesser or greater sin calculated. The protagonist had entered into the morass of fibbing rather innocently, only to find out how sordid the situation actually was.

Don't even suggest that any man with two balls between his legs would breath a huge sigh of relief to find his wifey had kept her lips tight, her legs closed, and her hands to herself.

Overall this was a good story but her bumbling lack of skill in helping her husband out of his maelstrom of doubt was a bit chintzy as a device for tension in the storyline.

Nonetheless, cagey is quite a skilled writer and the effort to entertain and edify is much appreciated.

These people.know more about these fictional characters than the author does. At least they think they do.

Sloppy P.I work. The P.I LEAVES BEFORE finishing the job. Had she done her JOB correctly she would have left with Rita & Lisa. Even hanging out in the hallway, for just 10 mins, would have proved they left. I know, I know she had an emergency that nearly cost two marriages... If they were cheating why was Janet even there? For a 5some?

They left the room and went to a restaurant. No receipt? How'd they pay? Credit card?, credit card bill. Debit card? Bank statement or online transaction history. Worse case they hire a REAL P.I. that will actually do their job and could talk to the staff on duty that night. And finally the cab ride. Again, a real detective would easily confirm that lead.

Just to many holes not addressed by this author. Just lazy, sloopy, writing.

A 3*** just because of all the holes in the story.

Lisa still lied, by omission if nothing else.

At least you wrote a story, Thanks for that.....

Even a small lie leaves trust in disrepair. Lies do huge damage and covering for a friend's affair is WAY OVER THE LINE. He had every reason to react poorly. The trick is to let it go and rebuild trust and that's not easy. It requires a leap of faith. Good story.

A reasonable story of "best intentions gone awry", up until David falls on his own sword, for no reason. Well, if he's too uptight to be a "Dave", then yeah, he's probably gonna be part of this ridiculous third-wave feminist "all men only suppress women" nonsense and offers himself up for sacrifice at the first sign of an offended woman.

Fuck the "male ego" bullshit. This is *such* a hack cliche, it automatically merits a low score. I don't see an issue with his ego here at all. She lied, apropos of nothing and then at the end HE SAYS "I should have seen you were only trying to help our friends".

OK, riddle me this - how was lying to help her friend cheat helping Chuck? I just don't see it. It started with a small lie and then progressed from there. And this is "the male ego" being hurt? I'm pretty sure it's not me that doesn't get it, but the author that doesn't get it. That's not how any of this works. You've gone so far to make this a realistic portrayal only to pull this fantasy out at the end. Ugh.

There's zero explanation of how trust has been rebuilt. As readers we know what happened, but beyond the two women backing each other up, there is no way to verify this, thanks to the inept PI. Why not have Rita track the affair guy down and have him vouch that nothing happened? Or the other guy? Cab receipts? Surveillance video? That would at least be something. But no. David's already broken trust is supposed to be magically healed by some feminist claptrap. Ridiculous. And lazy.

There are stories where such an excuse may be used, but they are rarer than honest politicians. And this story was not one of them. Too much of a Deus Ex Machina to fit the story where none was needed.

P.S. The idiots asking "what lies did she tell?"

Lie #1

> Rita and I had been shopping that evening, but she left just after 7:00 PM for an "appointment".

>As it was, Chuck never did call to ask me,but the following weekend, he did casually mention it while the four of us were relaxing in our hot tub after playing 18 holes of golf. Remembering how frantic Rita was when she called, I answered that we would have shopped till 12 if the stores had stayed open.

Oh, that's only a little obfuscation, because, she's a woman and women live to shop, silly! And it was to Chuck, not her husband.

No, she clearly lied in a conversation that David was involved in that she was out past 10p.m. when he knew she was home at 7 p.m. She lied right there and he didn't call her on it. Because? Maybe he didn't expect his wife to lie about something he thought was so small and stupid?

Lie #2

*Rita told David and Chuck we were going to get together to have dinner and see a movie

Oh, but *Rita* told it! That doesn't count. Wrong. This is a lie by omission. When photographs appear of her in a hotel room party with 2 unknown men, she was not truthful to her husband. She clearly had done more than just the plans she had told him were. Although the story never explicitly had the scene, there had to have been a follow up discussion with Lisa and David about what she would be doing, a little reminder ("Oh, remember I'm going out with Rita Saturday for dinner and a movie!"). That's how real couples talk and exist. I don't keep my partner's schedule and expect her to remind me of her activities.

So now with 2 lies together, now David knows she will lie often to protect herself / her friend.

Real BAD!!! A 1

Reading again, this is a good story about the problems with lying. It's difficult to recover lost trust.

I read it again and I'm not so sure that her one lie was that bad. Ending an affair and recommitting to a marriage is a good thing. Keeping it to herself meant that her husband did not need to lie to his friend. I get why he lost trust in his wife, but I'm not so sure her actions were all that wrong. I do think the P.I. was very unprofessional and should probably be sued.

"my male ego" When ever you write these words, just erase them, because they are demeaning and insulting. The male (or female) ego has nothing to due with the sadness one feels at being betrayed, or the concern it will happen again.

You gay ass motherfucker.

"Male ego?"

You're a cuck apologist at best.

I hope I get Dianne as our therapist. Smart lady. But you did make him look wimpy, you know. She should have volunteered for a lie detector test.

M'y god, i Dream !! I'm the husband and it's all my fault.

My wife's lies, it's my fault.

The Second World War, it's my fault.

The disappearance of the dinosaurs, it's my fault.

Thanks for the counseling sessions I will do penance. 😂😂

"and my male ego that were hurting me"

Makes the story totally worthless every time some "writer" tosses it in there, an for the record, thats always a horse shit statement. Being hurt is NOT an ego issue but the intellectually lacking may think so.

Start using the "fragile female ego" cuz the ladies have it as well.

Skip this trite story folks.

She sure looks guilty!!!

Again. Good story, although I am so sick of that " fragile male ego" thing.

If males did not have ego, the world would be very different place,and likely economic chaos would result. There are many reasons a moderate, "fragile" male ego is necessary. These dumb lw authors always use it as a way to belittle, condemn, and destroy. One star.

David should have told the counselor to stick her ego up her ass and walk away. He was right to not trust his wife anymore, and the marriage should be over. If a woman will cover up adultery, then it’s only a matter of time before she cheats herself.

Good story. A solid 4. That was one clever counselor, giving it with full barrel to each of them separately. Thus creating the slightest opening.

"Male Ego"? It seems that most of these stories begin with Female ego and insecurities.

Actually a good story

4/5

Yet another of mountain from a molehill forced misunderstanding plot.

This is written by a male for BTB crowd audience to relentlessly moralize about "foolish" women.

In reality it is just a bullshit.

This was a great story and i give it 5 stars. Lisa almost lost her marriage thru lying to cover up the infidelity of her friend, Rita. She did not cheat on David but she did lie to him repeatedly. This all blew up in her face when David produced the P>I> pictures of his wife with another man. It does not have to be getting caught in the act of cheating on your husband that can ruin a marriage. It can be the loss of trust in your spouse that can do the trick even if you did not actually cheat on your husband. Lisa survived a close call her and learned a live lesson. Great story!!!!

This was an interesting insight into the perspective of a guy that was super special, and the woman who loved but failedto fully understand him.

I just read 2 of Cageytee's short stories. Though not ranked near 5's, I found them well written, and very though provoking. For 20 minutes of reading they give a read "bang for the buck." Check him out. Real life Romance in the LW category. The Literotica archive or a great resource.

The Hoary Cleric, a guest at this site who has a romantic bent.

PS Don't be put off by some of the comments. If you read The Slightest Opening you will see how ridiculous misleading some of them are, as they have nothing to do with this story

Cute, blaming-both sides to get them to reconcile. In the long run though she is still a liar. He will always worry about trusting her. That’s not a happy marriage

The story changes direction suddenly and for no apparent reason. Suddenly David accepts her story, believing her entirely, just when it was made clear that he had no reason to do so. It makes no sense.

I can only give it one star. A lying cunt is only one step away from a cheating cunt. Cut your losses and move on or kiss her ass and wait until she does it again.

Sadly people lie all the time. In this case thr faithful wife lied to rovide an alibi for her faithless friend Rita. Ironically the alibi was to cove rup Rita talking at length with Stan on a pay phone (bit dated story) regarding planning a new fuck session. Also the MC did not know about an affair when asked to cover. She found out after making the promise. She cursed Rita and told her she would never lie for her again. That would have been reasonable, if it had all stopped there. But then she agrees to be a wingman for Rita to tell Stan she is backing out of the planned sex party. Wtf? No email. Can't call the hotel room? No smartphone? Just have to meet face to face. And btw who the heck is Jeff? He wasn't working for/with Janet. Stan and Jeff did not know the MC woukd show up. So was Jeff there to party with Stan and Rita, maybe be part of a small gangbang? Or was Jeff just their by happenstance. He did seem uncomfortable. Bit peculiar. Anyways MC risked her marriage one a lie. Is it forgivable? Should be with time. But it can take time for a marriage to heal from a lie like that when accompanied by all the apparently damning circumstantial evidence. The counselor was good. She told both of them off. They both needed a whack in the head. The husband was overreacting (with some cause) and she didn't fathom thr damage her lies did to their marriage and her husband. And to all those commenters below who decry liars. Sure it sucks and what she did was injurious and gotten magnified by all the misinformation from Janet who fucked up her investigation. But unfortunately people do lie. Depends on the magnitude and its potential for damage. The wife had no intention to harm her spouse and a small seeming lie took on a much larger than life aspect because of the crazy circumstances. It is in no way adultery or cheating, and for those who would dump her for her lies, well that is just sad. But to each their own. Some people are Old Testament and brook no deviations or mistakes. Tough life.

"tears now streaming down his cheeks".

FFS.

In the epilogue, there should be a conversation between David and Chuck in some bar, where over a beer they remember how great they had fun with two beauties that weekend in Savannah... Two inveterate libertines got guilty, submissive and faithful wives.

Such a lame ending

Well written.

Excellent counselor, got them both to look deep inside to see their own faults.

Definitely a major factor. Lying for friend!!! Don't!!!!

Trust once broken almost impossible to restore!!!

No trust no respect,no honor

"vehicle was left at the Marriott that night and the P.I. correctly reported that she had not seen you return in a cab and that your vehicle did not return at all that night"

Maybe I missed it. But, was it ever explained where she was and what she was doing?

if there ever was a psyop, this was it.

she put their relationship in jeopardy, and he apologizes to her.

WOW, he should bend over and let her fuck him with a strapon.