All Comments on 'Will and Marnie Explore . . . Ch.01'

I didn't mind the open format of the previous episode. Let the reader contemplate the possibilities/alternatives. Good, at least, for those who enjoy thinking about issues.

In that regard, and when analyzing/interpreting fiction, I do not pass moral judgement on that fiction based on my own real-world moral principles.

What I do look for is a 'morality' that is internal to the fictional world and which is carried through consistently within that work of fiction.

I briefly scanned some of the comments to the previous episode, and agree with two comments/criticisms others have made. The difference between an 'episode' and a 'story' is in the degree to which character motivations transparently define the fictional morality as well as drive the fictional action. 'Transparency' need not be explicit, in the sense of the author saying 'here is why X does this'.

First, Vanessa's motivation was unclear. Yet her own actions can be interpreted as reflecting a personality type. Basically, she's pushy, taking it upon herself to convince others to do what she's done. If that's how she acts, then a good story would make that an issue, because all the action of the plot is being driven by Vanessa's actions. In this episode she even takes initiative (over Marnie) to convince Barry of her scheme.

Second, in the previous story Marnie had already decided. This act stacks the deck with respect to the story's moral compass. Barry is painted into a corner. For example, there is an alternative universe where Marnie wouldn't decide without first discussing with her husband. Marnie's actions define who she is: thus, the implicit moral set-up.

On both counts, there is already an implicit moral order to this fictional universe. The people are already acting in a certain way .. pushy, secretive/deceitful, .. whatever. Differences in the quality of stories will be in how well this implicit moral universe is consistent with what actually happens. Do people act inconsistently with the implicit setup? Are these actions central to what the story is about? Is the implicit moral behavior just dropped and not dealt with? Is it left as a stacked deck to let the author and readers eek out whatever satisfaction is gained from a preferred outcome? This last, by the way, is the typical BTB type strategy. The wife, no explanation given, is just presented as a guilty party, so that the cathartic experience of revenge can be enjoyed by those seeking it. Good catharsis, perhaps, for the fans, but rarely a good story.

By the way, the basic writing is fine. Economical.

This story can be better if the Barry is fucking Vanessa while watching Will fuck Marnie through the one way window.

I find that the hardest part of writing a story is coming up with an ending that ties the story together or adds a unique twist on a familiar plot. I understand the plot of this story, which is simply a woman who enjoys sharing her husband.

Her motivation is clear, although not necessarily specified as of yet. Her husband's motivation is also clear, although you would think he would hesitate without Barry's consent. So, in this chapter, we come to Barry's motivation, which is part curiosity and part arousal of the idea of watching his wife with another man.

In the next chapter, Will and Marnie do the deed, with Barry (and probably Vanessa) watching surreptitiously front the next room. Maybe Barry feels left out of the fun and fucks Vanessa to "get even."

The question then becomes: where does this story end? Does Barry and/or Marnie regret the decision to go through with this and return to monogamy? Do the two couples become regular playmates? Do they end up swapping partners permanently? Do the four of them enter into a polyamorous relationship and live together under the same roof?

This story can potentially go in many different directions, and I look forward to seeing where you take it.

Start to non-finish. That makes 2 really awful stories in the LW section today.

This so-called story is so far not to my personal taste. This story with its endless gabfests and confab about getting extramarital enflagrante reminds me of George Will 's quote. I'm down with violence not being inherent part of Loving Wives. Luedon is doing crackerjack job there , the committee meetings are going strong. Only time will tell how well Luedon's spieling characters walk their talk.

Bull shit

Screwing up a marriage so attractive to other people. You are taking a good 20 year marriage and trashing it... Why (?).. because the couple won't want to spend their lives as a family anymore, once this suggested act takes place. If the daughters are intelligent, as proposed, they will not want their families (Present or Future) having anything to do with their divorced parents/grandparents.

Give the guy some balls and let him tell it like it is!

what a drawn out boring story

Okay, number one. The tale of the two virginities didn't really need to be reiterated so much. It was annoying.

So, Slut has lots of experience. She marries Man Slut 1 when he's still innocent. His curiosity and willingness to experiment is lauded and he becomes an adept. Man Slut 2 finds is own virgin, Wanna Slut, yet she doesn't have that same curiosity as her opposing number in this tale. After 20 years of marriage Man Slut 2 has given up on Wanna Slut opening up and he is left to his own devices as far as getting his end away. He goes through the motions knowing all she's gonna do is just lie there and wait for him.

Fucking women. Wanna Slut gets bored as he goes through his routine so she decides he isn't really doing it for her any more and she wants to try something new.

I like a good story about people fucking around but the lead in to this is bad. I'm on the verge of not caring to find out how it goes.

As you say, "I'm on the verge of not caring to find out how it goes"

I've been on that verge too, a couple of times as I have been writing it.

But it's been an interesting experiment on the way through.

L

Luedon, would you care to elaborate on the type of experiment you're executing here? I'm genuinely curious. Is it a writing experiment or a social experiment to gauge the readers' reactions? If it's the latter, it's probably best to wait until the last chapter has been posted.

sorry this can only end one way, Divorce by the seduced couple and one or both of the seducers in the hospital or dead. When you go in for self interest and seduce a couple you basically destroy their marriage. You can implant all kinds of images and desires in them but eventually their guild and humiliation will destroy them.

This website is Lit•erotica.

The story is neither Lit nor Erotica.

Swingerjoe, no, there's nothing subversive in what I referred to as an experiment. Some time back with my earliest story you challenged me to try writing fiction. I said then that I didn't believe that I had an adequate imagination to do that.

I wrote 'Vanessa and Marnie in Conversation' as a bit of a stir for the moral brigade to raise the question of a wife wandering and whether or not she should or could obtain her husband's permission. I posed it as a dilemma which some were happy with (as ISKwest said in the first comment here) but others challenged me again to write an 'ending' to the dilemma.

The experiment has been to see whether I could do it successfully. I remain doubtful.

L

Another cuckolding crap story forming no guts to say no

Barry and Marnie have a weak marriage and family. Not only do their children prefer advice from people outside the family, even Marnie is more open and honest with Vanessa than she is with her own husband about her interest in sex. With such a shallow and tepid relationship I can see Barry allowing Marnie to fuck around, not because it might be good for her, but because it might be exciting for him. Marnie also wanting to fuck other men just makes Barry's fetish more easily obtainable. So there's not much drama where there's not much suspense or angst. It's all sounding pretty clinical. Sort of a balance sheet calculation of who is short some units of fucking others. I guess Marnie is due some makeup fucks.

But wait a minute. Pretty soon Marnie will have fucked a guy that Barry has to interact with, stay friends with, on a regular basis. Why should Marnie have that experience and not Barry? Shouldn't Barry be allowed to fuck some woman that Marnie has to interact with, stay friends with? You have to admit, even if Marnie lied to Barry, and had much more sexual experience than she admitted to, why would Barry care? That was BEFORE THEY WERE MARRIED! Now Marnie wants to break her marriage vow, but doesn't have the maturity, honesty, and conviction to approach her own husband.

What I see being emphasized and reiterated in this story is sexual equivalency being more valuable than marital fidelity. And sexual curiosity being more more important than respect for one's marriage and family. I suspect that's what makes me feel like I'm being lied to by the premises of this plot. This is just your every day prurient desire looking for a legitimate excuse to be satisfied. And I don't understand who you are trying to fool. Marnie wants to play the married slut for a while. The marriage is already over, so what's all the fuss about? Barry just needs to decide if he wants to continue living with a slut, or go looking for a true wife. And if he has any erotic interest in seeing another man fuck his wife, than his wife is already lacking a husband. So why does anyone care what happens to a marriage that exists only on a piece of paper?

Both stories are fantasy, but plausible and realistic enough to engage the reader. Also, they are well written and psychologically complex. For the reader, the excitement lies in seeing how this works out: it could easily be either a marital train wreck or marital bliss.

However, it does put forth an unsettling truth that is rarely discussed in the “Hot Wife” or “Open Marriage” forums. That being: people do have hidden agendas, people do manipulate others, and people do - even politely - back others into corners where the only choice is to smile, accept what is going to happen, and get onboard the train that is steaming down the tracks or, file for divorce.

Vanessa has had a profound impact on the sexuality of the neighbor´s two daughters. Now, she is doing a game changer on the girl’s parents, Marnie and Barry. She planted a nagging doubt in Marnie´s about the whether her monogamous sex life was really as good as she claimed. Now, by talking to Barry and showing him the one-way mirrored “interview” room, she has begun to appeal to the voyeur side that most men have.

It is fairly obvious that soon Marnie will be bouncing up and down on Will´s cock. Probably, she will also at least sample other men. In spite of his reluctance, the control booth behind the one-way mirror, could easily lure Barry into willingly participating in this lurid tale, which is entirely of Vanesa´s making.

Depending on one´s morality, Vanessa is either a liberator, who helps people get in touch with their sexuality, or she is a devil. Both my wife and I are cheering Vanessa on and we hope Marnie gets passed around to a few guys!

Very few people get into this life-style without a mentor and / or a shove or two along the way. Unknowingly to her, but with my blessing, my wife was politely psychologically set-up by some of her female friends to take a lover. Then, after that, she willingly entered into the Hot Wife life style, and now decides by herself with whom she has sex. Having a happy wife has helped me adjust to our half-open marriage.

Possibly, Vanessa is the most subtil, understated, and sophisticated Dominatrix around! A really controlling personality like hers´ does not need to resort to the more obvious tools of the trade like whips and cuffs! Great story, we await a sequel.

No other author on this forum is able to capture the thought provoking, complex and subtle nuances of your stories. Please keep writing...so many of us are waiting to read more of your work!

In your first story Marnies mind seem to be made up; she would fuck Will even If her husband did not want it. Cheating behind his back was an option. In this story she will not fuck Will unless her husband knows and is ok with it. That is a big difference.

Anonymous is obviously wrong in that having sex outside the marriage will automaticly lead to divorce and unhappiness. There are thousands of people who can testify to the opposite through own experiences. But monogamy is both a social norm and perhaps what most people are emotionally comfortable with. Jealosy is a real emotion that can be very destructive.

Opening your marriage to having sex with others must be based on communication and mutual agreement If you will continue to have a happy marriage as your primary and lasting relationship.

For my part, I would be happy to let my Marnie have this experience. I would hope that she would have a great and exciting experience. I love her and wish her all good. And I would hope that it would put some new sparks into our own lovemaking and enhance our relationship. It is dangerous territory though, and perhaps I should just be satisfied knowing it will never happen to me.

I look forward to the continuation.

The unfavourable ones early in the piece started me doubting the wisdom of trying this story, but a couple of favourable ones have encouraged me to keep going. (But don't stop being critical, especially if you can be constructive as well.)

I know where it's finishing, I'm now working on how to get there.

And Elling50 you have picked a disparity between the original 'Conversation' and this current 'Exploration'. In the first story Marnie had decided to have extramarital sex either with or without her husband's acquiescence. We'll just have to assume that she got cold feet so Vanessa stepped in to make it happen.

L

You're history, mate.

I tend to agree with "It's not complicated".

I would really resent this woman poking around in my marriage. In fact, I would be inclined to take an ad in the local paper, warning the community about her. What a manipulative bitch. If she wants to preach, let her start the "Church of the Wayward Spouses".

But I can see from the title and from the husband's reaction that it is going to happen.

Not a bad story about choices and maybe about consequences...but in this story there is a character that nobody understands what she feels, what she wants...1st - Will - from a shy guy to a cheater...not once but twice, because the first time with his wife's friend was behind her back...2nd - Marnie - She only thought about other man because she was "corrupted" by her friend Vanessa talkings...Now she is curious...3rd - Barry - He seems to be "Corrupted" by Vanessa too, but was it from the wine? will he go for it? Maybe, but he will not be like Vanessa...He will want to have some fun too...For last - Vanessa - The one no one can understand - She accepted her husband cheating as someone drinks a glass of water...Then she make him fuck her friend (if her friend needed a fuck why the need to use her husband? for sure in that town there would be men available for a fuck...), and through all this her feelings about it were flat...she showed no emotions...Has her previous life damaged her to the point where she didn't care a fuck about nothing? "My husband cheats?" Good for him he deserved it...I don't care..."Does my husband got a pneumonia?" I hope he gets better, but I don't care if he dies or not..."My friend needs a different cock?" let her use my husband's...I don't care...Will it destroy her marriage? I don't care...The question in this story is and always will be: What moves Vanessa? What her goal in life? Does she get a kick sharing her husband? Does she cares about anything in life? What makes her go from day by day? Is her main goal in life to be a "corrupter", looking for other people weaknesses and explore them for her own fun or as a way to forgive her past? Let's see where the writer will take us...2* for now...

This is a good example of how the moral universe that is assumed in a story can significantly alter the direction of the plot.

Alternative one: In 'conversation' Marnie is motivated out of discontent. She enthusiastically agreed to Vanessa's suggestion out of self-interest. That she now wants to discuss things with Barry only means that she decided not to go secret, but to attempt to convince/coerce him into the line she wants to follow.

Alternative two: Assume instead that she is content in her marriage. But, she is somewhat weak-willed and in the heat of conversation she is bulldozed by Vanessa.

However, people do change their minds, especially when the felt pressured into a so-called 'decision'. Fact is, nothing has been done yet. Marnie, under current assumption, would have a "OMG! What have I done?" moment once out of Vanessa's influence. Marnie hesitates because she's embarrassed and nervous about how Barry might respond if he knew.

And so on, depending on how the motivations line up. Example, Marnie could admit to the hasty over-enthusiasm, and Barry could start cross-examining her as to why she was even remotely interested at all. This could uncover a deeper sexual curiosity etc etc. A person could take it in many ways. Just make it consistent (and maybe with a motive not spelled out, to give a twist).

This is the trick and dilemma when writing stories. How to make sure that the background assumptions about characters' motivations are consistently played out?

This is tricky business. Many writers have commented on how characters can take on a life of their own. They won't necessarily be pushed around by the plot that an author thinks up.

I once made a couple of submissions. I was also doing an experiment. My intention was to take a start point, then write several alternative endings. It didn't work, because I began to fill in back-stories for the characters, which simply did not permit them to behave arbitrarily in my plot alternatives. It took me months to let them speak for themselves, forcing me to scrap the first chapters and rewrite everything into one self-consistent story.

Very interesting story. I hope that the sequel will be just as interesting and exciting.

I've read all previous comments from my fellow readers- some are excellent, btw- and I agree with "Its not that complicated"...this is a weak union at this stage in their life. Also, Vanessa is pushy and a adultery facilitator, a dangerous combination to have around. This can go so many ways yet. I'm usually pro-BTB and anti-wimp/cuck; I don't anticipate a conclusion I'll agree with. I do appreciate the writing, luedon, so thanks for making me feel and think.

If it was me not only no but HELL NO!!!!!!! Would be the answer and if my wife still wanted to then divorce would be the only solution.

He could tell will and his soon to be dead wife that if will or his wife ever try to fuck marnie they will have signed their death certificates. Cause uncle sam trained me on how to kill someone 50 different ways and make it look like an accident. Now that is what he should have said.

m not against cuckold or swinging but 180 degree turn of character? and some sadist bitch interfering in someone else's personal life and marriage? like she is some expert or god to dictate "if you do this, you will be better" simply manipulating bitch.

Hey, you give me all your savings, and I promise you the tastiest dish. Otherwise you will die wondering how tasty it could have been.

A nice little morality tale, Lue. You write stories that are well executed and full of emotion. You certainly engaged me in this one. Knowing how I feel about what the characters are doing, you made me read and care about it anyway. That's very rare. I started it because you wrote it. Usually, I would just say, "yuck," about stories with these kinds of characters and move on. You didn't let me do that. I hated the characters but you made me read, anyway. That's the mark of a very good writer. Plus, you get an A for mechanics from your friendly neighborhood English teacher. Nice, R

That is any real husbands, that are real men.

A real man does not allow his wife to be dirtied by having sex with another man outside of the marriage.

NO WAY, NO HOW! Because after adultery, all she is, is used meat. Adultery is wrong. There is no justification or validation that will change that. Just saying.

I've read your other stories, judging by your attitude towards sex outside the marriage, I'm willing to bet Barry caves in and allows Marnie to slut herself out though.

Just for the record, the philosophy "if you love something set it free, if it loves you, it will come back", is a pure and simple crock of horse puckies.

Here's a philosophy for you "when you choose a behaviour, you choose the consequences".

Indeed, rvws. Very true. And a totally logical person will undoubtedly assess what those consequences will be before choosing a behaviour. How many totally logical people do you know?

And "after adultery, all she is, is used meat". What? Any more 'used meat' than if she had multiple sex partners before marriage? Does the marriage certificate say "all the things you enjoyed before marriage you can no longer enjoy?"

Or, in Marnie's case, "those things you missed out on before your marriage you can now never enjoy."

Anyhow, thanks for your comment. Your opinion is every bit as valid as mine, no matter how much we may differ. We both have the right to express those views. Just so long as I don't try to impose my viewpoint on you and you don't try to impose your viewpoint on me the world will be OK.

L

What a person does prior to marriage is irrelevant to the marriage, unless those activities interfere with the marriage. Once two people get married, they make vows of fidelity, i.e. "And having only unto you, and forsaking all others as long as we both shall live. With this ring I thee wed, as a symbol of my unyielding faith and never ending purity,I give unto to you my troth.". So quite simply, the wedding, with these vows wipes the slate clean. Everything after that defines the character of the individuals. Trustworthy vs untrustworthy; faithfulness vs faithlessness etc. A persons behaviour is what defines them as a person.

Perhaps my words were a little harsh, I hope this clears things up.

Now, please define "forsaking all others".

In some cultures it means the wife must be totally covered apart from eyes and hands so that no man other than the husband may even see her, let alone touch her. And, of course, she must obey her husband in all things. (Totally different rules for the husband.)

At the other end of the continuum is total freedom, so that each partner may do as they wish so long as the other partner doesn't get upset about it and the couple agree that being together is better than being apart.

Somewhere in between is maintaining primary love (true love, emotional love) for each other, but perhaps not being so concerned about physical intimacy with others.

It's complex. Penis entering vagina seems to be the most critical step along the 'forsaking all others' continuum in a lot of LW stories. I respect those authors' right to hold those views. My view is different.

L

And "after adultery, all she is, is used meat". What? Any more 'used meat' than if she had multiple sex partners before marriage? Does the marriage certificate say "all the things you enjoyed before marriage you can no longer enjoy?"

Not a marriage certificate, the vows say certain things are off limits... If you don't want those off limits don't make the vow, the promise, in the first place. 

"What a person does prior to marriage is irrelevant to the marriage, unless those activities interfere with the marriage."

Well who really wants well 'used meat'? Being a porn star, a total gangbang slut, is not a woman most men want to marry. Do you really want to marry someone that treats sex casually, lots of FWBs, before you met them if that's not your own style? Compatibility in marriage applies to sex as well. Apparently what The Donald's wife did professionally before marriage, posing nude, affects their marriage or public image. And do people really change their behavior just because they are wearing a ring? 

"Now, please define "forsaking all others"."

To most it is self explanatory. But couples do get latitude in defining what it means for them. For us it's not even dancing with others. Dancing is sex with cloths on... Otherwise why would we only dance with the opposite sex? There is clearly a sexual element to dancing. At least there sure is when I'm dancing with a woman.

"Somewhere in between is maintaining primary love (true love, emotional love) for each other, but perhaps not being so concerned about physical intimacy with others."

Really? Then why are so many women so upset when their husbands are merely physically intimate with other women. "Come on honey. It was just meaningless sex." But of course sex is never really totally meaningless. As a guy physical sex is a whole lot more meaningful than "true love, emotional love".  If I had to choose between a marriage with "true love, emotional love" but no sex and one with sex but no  "true love, emotional love" which do you think most men would choose? It's women that are all hung up on emotional love, not men. One thing most men do want is respect. 

Let's put the whole sex/love thing another way. Women (generally) want an emotional connection before having sex. Men form the emotional bond after sex.

"It's complex."

Typical liberal co-out. No really the world is black and white. You either are faithful or not. Granted "the rules" can be different for different couples but what ever they are you either abide by them or you don't. Not complex at all. Difficult maybe. But not complex. 

"Penis entering vagina seems to be the most critical step along the 'forsaking all others' continuum in a lot of LW stories. "

Uh, no.. Forsaking all other penises period... .  Not buying Bill Clinton's definition of what sex isn't.

fag cuck shit.

Another illiterate WHORE posting cuck shit.

Can't wait to read next chapter

Funny anonymous *1 read the story and comment , badly. Then 3 months later commented again ,badly. must like re-reading "crap"?lol.

My comment , waiting for the next chapter to see what happens.

If those things you enjoyed or didn't get to enjoy involve having sex with others, then YUP, marriage means that you can't enjoy them.

As far as the "used meat," that was an unnecessarily crude way of putting things, but a marriage license is essentially a blank slate regarding whatever happened prior to marriage.

no man in there right mind would be convinced to let the wife have sex with another man, and if it is their neighbour that would be a double no. So what if she was too late in sowing her oats. Get divorced and. then you can have all the sex you want.

Having freinds that a cunning like vanessa means you need to choose better friends.

So first we set Marnie up with a white guy with an average cock. Once the horse is out of the barn, why not a black guy, then a large cock guy, then a midget, then two or more guys, The an extra guy and a woman, then just a woman, then a really young athletic guy, then a really intellectual nerdy guy, maybe an older guy, then why not run through all the other ethnicities? Let's give Marnie an Italian gigolo, then a Frenchman who eats pussy like a pro, then maybe some African tribesman, or Arab, or Asian?

What a juvenile low minded excuse to spoil a marriage. You should be embarrassed.

To me, the point of Anonymous just before me, 11-26-18, is that nobody can experience everything, so where to draw the line? Just draw it where it is now. It has worked 20 years -- before Mrs. Troublemaker came on the scene. See my related comment on Part one (Vanessa and Marnie in Conversation).

Elling50 sees a conflict between Part one, where Marnie has decided to have sex with Will, and Part two where Vanessa presents it as up to Barry. No conflict. Marnie is still decided. But Vanessa (conniver that she is), to make it more palatable, PRESENTS it to Barry as up to him.

Paul in Oklahoma

Here's an excerpt:

"Vanessa is apparently some sort of statistician, but she comes across as a lot less nerdy than Will. She's also very easy on the eye. She formed a close bond with my wife Marnie almost as soon as they moved in, but she also became very close to our two daughters Lynn and Ellie. They see her as something like a big sister and they tell her things they think they can't go to their mother with. Vanessa then tells Marnie and sorts things out for the girls. It's quite funny, really."

So our story is narrated by Forest Gump.

We hear that Vanessa is easy on the eye, but not how or why.

She formed a close bond. How? Why? Over what? She became close to two daughters. They tell her things they think they can't.

How could the narrator possibly know this. Vanessa goes to the narrator and tells him what the daughters have told her? Why? Is she a gossipy bitch? A backstabber? Are these important things for the narrator to know? Why? What are they? Why is it funny? The wife shouldn't have a close relationship to their daughters?

All of this non-writing completely avoids humanity and makes the characters into mere place-holders. None has any personality--the writer is trying to con you into thinking otherwise. This is lazy writing that is a waste of the time it took to write it.

Unlike you, I don't delete the negative comments on my stories.

Do you feel better now that you have retaliated? Did any of the other critical commenters on your story also have stories providing an opportunity like this for retaliation?

Lue

You were not alone in Ms Sands's wrath. I happen across a couple of other 'comments' she left behind. I give her credit, she's rather verbose when she rants. ;)

I have to wander if she gets her dander up relatively quickly, why post a story in the toughest category with the most critical readership? She could have easily posted her story in Erotic Couplings and avoided most of the wrath.

To your credit, I may not like your viewpoint on extramarital affairs, but you stand tall in your views. Something to admire even if it drives me crazy. =D

It was sad that she felt the need to retaliate. I thought it was also sad that she has deleted all comments now (originally it was only those she saw as critical) on her story.

I thought her story had promise, but I felt it it described the situation and the activities more than it developed the characters and drew the reader into their world. She has said that the next chapter will tell us more about her female character.

Literotica needs more lady authors and commenters, so I hope that she hasn't decided to abandon us.

Lue

however, I think Vanessa is a snake. We had an old expression in my business (IT repair): 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' To me, it looks like Marnie & Barry's marriage ain't broke.

As you say, in IT repair you may well say 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

But in the rest of the IT industry they say 'no matter how good your current model is, we can sell you a better one'. That was Vanessa.

I never worked out Vanessa as a character. I started thinking she would be a bit like Jenny Gently's character Carmen in 'Journey Into Cuckoldry', a manipulative person who believes she is doing it for the other person's benefit as well as for her own entertainment. But Vanessa didn't quite work out that way.

As I said before in the comments, writing this whole story series following on from 'Vanessa and Marnie in Conversation' was a mistake I won't repeat.

Lue

You've woken the control freak in some men. Others are more sanguine about the proposal. For myself, I don't buy the protagonist 's fulminations, but I can live with it. Congratulations on making so many people think and respond!