All Comments on 'Will and Marnie Explore . . . Ch.02'

Some finger fucking and blue navel lent? What in the hell was up with why navel lent is blue? That had to have been one of the worst ideas ever. Totally destroyed any eroticism you had built. Just a really bad chapter.

OK so Barry's signed up and so far things are respectful. But keen observers will have noted that human nature is asserting itself. Vanessa may have knocked him back but old Barry is already thinking ahead to when his opportunity arises for some strange, whether or not he "needs" it.

The main interest in this story is: Not Marnie or her husband...not Will, but Vanessa!!! As the husband thought: "Had she really set this up for what she claimed was Marnie's and my benefit, or was there some deeper motivation to her manipulation of those around her?" After 3 chapters of this story, we haven't a clue about her motivations...Even in the dark room, watching what was happening, she didn't show any of her inner thoughts....Well written as usual in @luedon, but 2* to the plot for now...

On the one hand, all four characters have expressed the sentiment that "it's just sex." Not a big deal. Not a marriage-ender. Yet, if that's true, why is there a need for so many rules? If it's just sex, then why prohibit kissing or "love bites?" Why allow hubby to interrupt at any moment and stop whatever is happening?

Aside from the rules, the entire setup just seems so clinical and non-erotic. The viewing room, the cameras, the beard trimmer (which, I would imagine would leave lots of loose hairs), the concept of having three "sessions", etc.. One of the great thrills of sex -- especially sex with a new partner -- is the spontaneity. Not knowing what that partner will do or how he/she will do it. Getting caught up in the moment and surrendering to passion, letting yourself go, etc..

As I read the first half of this story, a thought occurred to me on the direction I hoped this story would be heading. Wouldn't it be a unique and meaningful twist if, after several chapters of conversation, debate, hand-wringing, and excruciating contemplation, if Will just wasn't that good in bed? If Marnie had to fake an orgasm because he just wasn't turning her on, the moral of the story really would be: it IS just sex. What makes sex fun and exciting is the one you're with; not the physical act itself. Talk about a novel ending!

(And now I wish I had written this story myself.)

If I were Barry I would keep my options open if his wife goes through the 3 phases. That would be if he wanted a piece of strange it should be available to him. I don't care what Vanessa said, this is Barry's decision to make and Marnie can't make any objections. It just might let her know exactly how Barry is feeling about her current setup. Well written.

That is what they are trying to do, right.

Just not a good story. Neither interesting or sexy.

disguised cuckolding crap

5 for effort and content and t offset the asshole of LIT's 1 vote.

You disappointed me.

I thought you were going to give Barry a spine and a pair of testicles. Guess I was wrong. Just another cuckold.

Why?

You are setting up Barry to be outclassed by Will as a lover, why? Barry describes himself as short on foreplay and short on being sensitive to what Marnie wants. Will has already broached sexual acts with Barry's wife that have been denied to Barry, putting his finger up Marnie's ass, and her apparently liking it. Trimming Marnie's bush was a sort of claim Will is making, altering Marnie's most intimate sexual appearance to please him, rather than Barry. Barry's failure to object was acquiescence, not permission.

Should we be surprised that when it is Marnie's turn to please Will, she will do more intimate and erotic sex acts for Will than she has done for her husband? You have portrayed Barry as a simple minded fool, who does not understand what is happening to him, his wife, and their once satisfied marriage. Once Marnie has demonstrated that sex with Will is superior in at least several ways than sex with her husband, then why won't Marnie want to discover what sex is like with a larger cock, with more than one man at a time, and sex with a woman? When and how is it determined that Marnie's sexual inexperience has now been appropriately rectified, and satisfied? And how will Barry trust that when Marnie is reacting to their future sex acts (Will they ever make love again?), she is not in the throws of a memory of someone else's tongue, finger, cock? Barry will be competing with Marnie's memory of Will's sexual prowess for the rest of their marriage. And anyone, Barry, Vanessa, Marnie, Luedon, thinks this can be good for their marriage? Of course Will doesn't give a fuck, and has never expressed any words that he is one bit concerned how his fucking Marnie might impact her marriage. Will is the only person in this story who will be better off after the Marnie fucking than before it. He will have cuckolded Barry, and demonstrated to his wife Vanessa, and to his new fuck toy Marnie, what a superior lover he is. Marnie and Barry will have lost their respect for themselves, their marriage, and each other, and Vanessa will be, once again, just Will's pimp.

I can see only pain and regret coming from this incredibly stupid decision. I wonder how you will convince us otherwise, for I expect you want to.

"It was becoming quite clear to me that Marnie had made her decision. It was going to happen and, while I wasn't prepared to admit it to Marnie or Vanessa, I was looking forward to it too."

What a wimp... Classic cuck, eh? 

" It was not yet a week since that Saturday evening with Vanessa and my sex life had already been transformed. Would it get even better after 'the event'?"

Probably not... Oh wait this hubby is a cuck... Sure, as his wife discovers how totally inadequate their 20 years of boring sex has been... their sex life will change but not for the better. She'll know what she's missing. Adam and Eve and the snake (Vanessa) and the tree of knowledge. 

"If this happens, and my wife has sex with your husband, does that mean Will's wife will have sex with Marnie's husband?"

"Decidedly not," she replied."

See no strange for poor old hubby. He's a cuck after all. He gets the same old tired stretched out cunt... No way I would agree to anything like this unless it was a full swap with Will and Marnie watching me with Vanessa - first! 

 "Will and I talked about this after his first dalliance and we're not into swinging. We did what we did for a specific reason, and I think you understand why now. If I'm not wrong, you have decided in your own mind that the same reason could work for you and Marnie too. She needs it. You don't."

Bullshit. What's good for the goose is certainly good for the gander. After banging the same woman for 20 years a guy could certainly enjoy a different woman just as much as a woman might enjoy a different man. Variety - the spice of love life, eh? I'm sure Vanessa gives much better head than Marnie and probably loves it up the ass. 

"But so was I. And probably so were Vanessa and Will too. This was going to take a lot of getting over for all four of us, I suspected. And there were still Sessions 2 and 3 to come. Would they be just as intense? Or more so? And what about when his penis actually did make its way into her vagina? Could that be the point at which it became too much for Marnie? For me? So much now to ponder upon."

It's a cock... in a pussy.   Gad. This an erotic site not a medical journal. 

Just wait till Marnie deepthroats Will and swallows which she never does for Barry. Then Will gets Marnies anal cherry.  That will really please Barry won't it. Watching his wife do for another guy things she never did and never will do for him. So exciting huh... not! 

The only way anything remotely like this could work for me is if it was an equal swap. Your wife for mine... Or no deal. 

BTW how long before Will and Vanessa's little porn tapes hit the Internet? Barry lets them keep the recording so they can be blackmailed? Talk about stupid people. 

And especially the second last of the anonymous comments. The last two comments were both interesting analyses and expressions of beliefs about behaviour in situations where a wife has experienced an extra-marital adventure.

The difficulty faced by people analysing characters and predicting behaviours is that their frame and their beliefs about human behaviour may be quite different from the author's frame and beliefs. However, the characters belong to the author, not the commentator.

My frame, which was also explored in my first story about Lue/Lucy, is that a relationship can become stale over time and the partners simply get used to it. They know that things really should be better, but don't actually get round to doing anything about it. (Or maybe can't find a way to confront the situation.)

Sometimes, if they are lucky, something may happen that draws their attention to what has happened over the years. If they are open to learn from the disruption, it can be good for the marriage. But, of course, it also brings risks.

I also don't see that it is necessary for the partner who hasn't gone experimenting to find it essential to 'balance the ledger'. If what one partner does turns out to be good for the marriage, both partners benefit.

Thus, I don't see Barry as any more an incompetent husband than many others become over twenty years of 'just getting used to things'. Nor do I see him as a deluded or subservient wimp. (And, since he's my character not yours, he'll be like I want him to be.)

I'm still not sure that I should have reacted to the comments to my earlier stories that challenged me to attempt writing fiction, but since I did accept the challenge, I shall continue on for now.

L

This story either talked about the upcoming cucking or described the event . I not prejudiced against cuckoldry or even hubby humiliation . But the fetish du jour has to be wrapped in actual story. Business subplots, exotic locales and excellent supporting character potraits will get me thru a tale that is not my fetish of choice.

The best cuck writers know this xleglover, jaycuck , urbanslut and Girlinthemoon are just a few writers who can write a heated encounter but give subtext and perspective so that even if you wouldn't choose the main character's path, WHY they did is understandable. To me , the story is too exclusionary for those not predisposed to swing that way. If one is open to voyeurism and hot wife aspects , then game on. But not for me.

Somebody needs to take this cunt Vanessa OUT!

Now THAT is a chapter I would read completely!

I made a comment after Ch 1, that the so-called inconsistencies between that chapter and the earlier 'conversation' could go in at least two directions - one with a dishonest/egocentric Marnie and one with a steamrolled-by-Vanessa Marnie, combined with Barry getting increasingly curious. Lucky for me, the second path was chosen.

Vanessa is more in the background. The focus now shifts to Barry, how he reacts to Marnie's experiment, and how that experiment will affect both of them. I can think of three logical possibilities from this point (there is a fourth, unhappy ending that I doubt will happen).

Naturally, the angst aspect that affects the LW category is there: the hurt, damaged male victim being set up. But probably less likely. As written, Marnie and Barry seem to be more partners in this. Seems to me, that if two people enter an experiment together, then they can always plan an escape route, admitting the potential risks, and how they'll deal with it.

On a personal downside: I'm stuck between the two extremes of words used for sex organs and sex act. Breasts - anatomical; boobs - colloquial; but, 'funbags'?? Sadly for me, a word like that kills the erotic content, and I struggle to get the mood back.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment ISKwest. I am struggling with the next chapter. I knew the direction I wanted the story to follow when I decided to go beyond the original 'Conversation' and I knew where it was going to finish up. Getting there has been the problem.

Regarding your last point about the use of words, it is a problem to me. As you say, anatomical words vs colloquial words can have different effects in a story. For erotic effect, some anatomical words and some colloquial words can work well. Some that once didn't work now do. 'Vulva' comes to mind as one that was seen as too anatomical previously but may now be used with erotic effect.

Some colloquial words are so crude that they destroy erotic effect. My problem here was writing in first person through the eyes of a man who was quite a lad in his earlier days. When thinking things to himself he may use all sorts of words including the non-erotically crude ones.

As a writer I can't do fantasy. I write from within the constraints my own experiences. I have known 'Barrys' so I write like I think that they might think. I also write as realistically as I can, so sometimes things may happen to destroy the erotic effect. An earlier comment picked up the aside about belly button fluff. That stray thought actually happened to me once in the middle of an otherwise well-focussed activity. In a fantasy sex scene, nothing distracting ever happens.

So, again, thanks for the comment,

L

Not bad for a first attempt, though I have to agree with LSD. I am interested in seeing how everything infolds. Keep going.

fag cuck shit.

Another illiterate WHORE posting cuck shit.

You would think that Marnie would have just told Barry that she wanted to experiment. Instead they chose to take a moonlight stroll through a minefield.

I see anonymous *1 strikes again. LOL.

Looking forward to next chapter. Where will it go. I've noticed hubby is quite crude. Calling his wife breasts as funbags. Not believing in foreplay not leading up to jumping on her. I don't think he knows really how to make love, or if he really loves her, or if she is just a convenience wife. Will he learn from this experience and have a more fulfilling marriage or will it fail due to his selfishness, that she can no longer live with?

There isn't a next chapter.

I have commented on my problems with this story, and I haven't been able to bring myself to write the next chapter.

I was talked into writing the 'Explore' series after writing 'Vanessa and Marnie' which was supposed to pose a dilemma and leave it at that. Commenters wanted my answer to the dilemma and I foolishly accepted the challenge.

I knew where I wanted the story to end up, but I got to the stage where the thought processes wouldn't take me there. So, my apologies for leading you on.

Lue

It may SOUND nice and fair to say that hubby can have some strange too, but what if he doesn't want it? Is it "fair" to "allow" someone to do something that they're not interested in doing?

I think others have mentioned this, but hubby having to socialize with the guy that fucked his wife is a real squick factor for me, It would be bad enough if it was prior to marriage, while we're married is a bridge too far!

Really, bad story, a man would never go for this bs. If he did he might as well become a full fledged cuckold.

The term you seek is the old English word 'wittol' : man who tolerates his errant wife.

Cuckold is a term for a man who's wife has been unfaithful like widower is a term for a man who's wife has died. Both are due to events beyond the control of the man involved, so why should either of them be humiliating?

Any humiliation is in the mind of the beholder and if you feel humiliated that says more about you - suggesting you and others like you were cheated upon and didn't handle it very well. If you are married - who's to say you're not already a cuckold? It applied once it happened - regardless of you being aware or not.

Yes I am speaking from experience, I had a cheating spouse. Was I upset and angry - yes. Did I feel humiliated - no! I did what was necessary and got on with my life. Life's too short to dwell on what's gone.

There is a quote that fits this situation quite nicely:

"You can’t start the next chapter of your life if you keep re-reading your last one."

The cuckold/wittol debate raises its head occasionally among the Loving Wives commentariat. It's probably best to accept that they have re-defined 'cuckold' from the strict definition of 'the husband of an adulteress' to exclude the BTB stories' heroic husbands who wreak revenge and retribution on the wandering wife and the man who led her astray.

Barry is not yet a cuckold, as Marnie technically hasn't committed adultery - Will's penis hasn't entered Marnie's vagina. (And, unfortunately, it doesn't, because I didn't write the final part of the story for reasons I explained elsewhere in the comments.)

I did like your concluding point "You can’t start the next chapter of your life if you keep re-reading your last one." There's more than one among the LW community who could usefully take that to heart.

Lue

Did not like the prequel because it was not going anywhere, like paddling upstream at the same rate as the current = zero progress. However, the two following episodes turned it all around till I give final episode 5 stars.

Swinger Joe thinks it has to be spontaneous to be sexy. Also some thought it was too "clinical." I felt none of that. Planned things can heighten the

anticipation /arousal. Clinical goes along with the experiment that I perceive this to be.

Some commenters think this all has to end in a bad way. Well, I don't like bad (or no) endings. Neither do I like cuckolds. I'm making an exception for all this. Because Vanessa's intention is to improve Marnie's life and others. And because I think the author pointed us at the happy ending. Which is. Marnie finds there is better sex than routine. At the same time Barry learns that sex is more a about taking time and arousing your partner than taking your own and in the end givers get more than takers. Will gets a beautiful new experience plus he derives satisfaction from teaching others. Vanessa likes being the one to orchestrate others' happiness. It's a win - win- win - win. Some just don't want this imaginative little tale to break out of their constrictures (= small mind). I still like it better when endings are spelled out -- in this case sex sessions 2 & 3 plus aftermath. But I can accept this one as is.

Besides intriguing plot, well written. With plenty of the dialogue I like.

Paul in Oklahoma

it looks like you have painted yourself into a corner with these characters. Vanessa seems to be Will's pimp and she is out to save the world from women not being sexually sated. The two way mirror and cameras are a long term investment not just a way to educate her naive neighbor. Vanessa reminds us that she needs to go slow drawing Marnie into this game so that she doesn't scare her off revealing her evil intentions. Barry seems like a teenage moron who doesn't know what he wants but he has the presence of mind to ask if he gets to have sex with Vanessa. When she turns him down you would think a lightbulb would go off about the real intentions of this little game. This is a well written tale but the motives of the characters seems to be jumbled quite a bit. I'll move on to your other stories.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, writing these two stories was a mistake on my part and I should never have gone beyond 'Vanessa and Marnie In Conversation'. It was intended to pose a dilemma for discussion and I should have left it at that.

However, the motives of a woman like Vanessa do intrigue me. The ideal model for a manipulative woman like her is Jenny Gently's Carmen from the early chapters of 'Journey Into Cuckoldry'. (I thought that JG lost the plot in the later episodes, but the story's first seven or so chapters were exceptional and showed Carmen at her best.)

In a way, I believe that both Carmen and Vanessa were manipulating others for what the manipulators believed was for the others' good. Their motivation wasn't evil or Machiavellian.

You say that Barrie behaves like a 'teenage moron'. I sort of agree -- he was an amalgam of a few grown-up bogans I have known. Successful businessmen despite their boganhood.

Lue

Sorry you are not continuing this story. Would love to hear how Marnie pleasures

Will in part 2 of the plan. And how cock meets pussy in part 3.

Please consider carrying on.

I'm sorry that I let readers such as yourself down by having started to do something and not completing it.

But I'm even sorrier that I started it.

My plan for the last chapter was for Marnie and Will to rebel and not go through with the final act. But I completely lost the motivation to write it.

Again, sorry,

Lue

Luedon,

I m so sorry that you don’t want be continue to write about the next 2 assignments of Will and Marnie. You have clearly told us what the plan was and the writing is excellent with tension and emotions. The build up of the erotic story is very believable and I like others would have enjoyed reading the next 2 events. However, you are the authors and it is you prerogative whether to continue. Thank you for you excellent writing.

I realized I had read this previously only when I came to my comment. (I'm old).

Still agree with my comment. Glad luedon is still interacting.

I wish you would consider yourself a niche writer. To people like me. I LIKE respectful cuckquean stories. I LIKE reconciliation stories. I DO NOT like BTB, although mild revenge can be OK. You can see I am not the "mainstream" LW reader. I am not saying: Write to all my preferences. I am saying: there are differing preferences.

Now, I like your story. (Read my previous comment). I did not like "Conversations,". But that was only because it was unfinished. With these two additional chapters, it has turned into a wonderful story by a wonderful writer.

But it's still unfinished. I want to read sessions 2 AND 3. And the ensuing discussions and aftermath of how Barry learns-by-watching and how he and Marnie's sex life improves and hence improved life after children left the nest.

I want to read about 1 and/or 5 years down the road how they all look back to this once-in-a-lifetime experience, telling each other the ways it made life better and how they would be deprived without it. (This may be unrealistic, but this is Literotica.)

Not everybody is like me. But maybe there is a niche of "me"s who would like something so different from the standard LW faire. Are you the one to write for us?

Paul in Oklahoma

I'm actually warming to the idea that one day I might re-visit Marnie et al. I am not a particularly imaginative person when it comes to writing fiction, and I really didn't want to go beyond the Marnie and Vanessa 'Conversation'.

The 'conversation' was intended to pose a dilemma for the commentariat, but very few engaged in discussing that dilemma. Commenters said I should give my version, which I then did and promptly regretted having done so.

So I wandered off and wrote about Billie, with whom I was much happier.

But the thoughts Marnie left behind have been bugging me a bit, so maybe within the next few months I may overcome my blockage and put fingers to keyboard and words on screen.

So thanks, Paul, for your thoughtful and positive comments about the story.

Lue

At least you've got the grit to face the masses. More than a lot of the weak-minded pseudo intellectuals on this site. Brava!

It's shocking what a sad excuse for writing this is. Look:

"I had never had a Sunday like that one before, and I don't expect I ever again will experience anything like it. We talked for a while and I told Marnie about the viewing room and what I thought Vanessa intended"

For Christ's sake. "I don't expect I ever again will experience anything like it." You couldn't find a more awkward, lazy phrase? It should be "I'd never had a day like Sunday, and I hoped I'd never have another." Don't make your reader pull out a machete to hack through.

Then we get "We talked for a while and I told Marnie." Oh, you were talking when you TOLD her something? Did you talk for a while first and THEN tell her about the viewing room. Was your telling her about the viewing room the substance of this generalized talking? The writer has no idea, because she puts zero thought into anything.

Just say "I told her"

;" that Marnie and Will should have sex on the sofa in one room while Vanessa and I watched them through the one-way glass from the other room."

Why all this fetishization about rooms? Just say they're having sex on the sofa while the others watch through the one-way glass that these CIA agents for some reason have in their goddamn house. When you tiptoe around like this, it shows you're not revising your work or caring about it. This isn't a story, but a bunch of word puking.

"Marnie was completely taken aback by the idea, saying "That's not how she put it to me. What we talked about was just me finding out what it felt like to have sex with"

This again is non-writing. The writer has no idea how to write a narrative. It's all just a stream of random words. If someone sayis "That's not how she put it to me" then she's aback. Maybe describe her facial expression. Don't just TELL us everything---twice--but actually WRITE...a... STORY.

All of luedon's work should get straight zeroes because there isn't a story in the bunch.

And I still think Vanessa is a snake, and a control freak, and a voyeur.

Barry is a wimp, soon to be a cuck, and Will is an asshole. Marnie is just Vanessa's pawn.

". . . If this happens, and my wife has sex with your husband, does that mean Will's wife will have sex with Marnie's husband?" "Decidedly not," she (Vanessa) replied."

WTF??? It's OK that V & W are playing around with other people's spouses, but not M & B? And what's the deal with Barry watching Will & his wife? No way, Jose.

" . . . Will and I are trimmed short," she said. "We don't like getting hairs caught in our teeth, so we use Will's beard trimmer to keep things nice and tidy in the pubic region. He's got the trimmer in there and he would like to trim Marnie as well . . . "

How dammed arrogant. Then, Marnie said she didn't like it in the ass, yet arrogant Will goes ahead and does it anyway. What an asshole. (BTW, I've done cunnilingus on my wife for over forty years and have NEVER got any hair in my teeth.)

I HOPE Barry grows a pair & tells these two to fuck off, otherwise he and Marnie will split up and "the Snake & the Asshole" will continue wrecking other marriages.

I admit I'll keep reading to see where you take these two.