All Comments on 'Anger Management Ch. 02'

You were right after all AMerryman.

Lue

It's sooo unlike you to compose four pages, encompassing two chapters, to throw shade at a genre you don't care for...

Perhaps this is your form of anger management, so I suppose it should be excused.

Incomplete!

Waste of time.

what turns a mans brain and thought patterns completely upside down, TK U MLJ LV NV

. . . he’s still fucked up by it?

He had insecurities about the size of his dick before his growth spurt, yet after he shot up six inches, I guess that he didn’t grow in one area, but he still joined the football team, was a great player, but that meant the showers he hated so much, every day, with all of the other guys around.

His reconciliation with Jessica came because this mountain of a man thought she was the only one who’d ever fuck him again.

Neither chapter was bad, but they don’t seem like they go together. In the first one, after years of teasing as a child, when he grew into his skin, he was a strong, confident man. In this, he was a big guy who was still an immature wimp emotionally. He’d have left Jessica if Melanie would have had him, but she was married, so he settled for his wife again.

The only high point was the beating of Dylan, although if I was Dave I would have destroyed his testicles before his face.

The rejection of Melanie gave Dave the consolation prize of settling for his wife again - there was no real acceptance of the past.

But at least there were no willing cucks in this tale.

All those comments of your deleted finally got to you?

If that guy was the head of her department, then HE was acting inappropiately, and HE'S the one who should be worried about HIS job, not her! Dave should tell her that if she couldn't/wouldn't support him, then maybe he would need to think if he wanted to be with her any more!

"Could there possibly be any good reason?" - Joe, I thought you believed that the wife's reason for cheating was important?

It's not too late to take care of Dylan. After he lets him go he blabs to Jessica?

Of course, Dave is writing stories - had to get another shot in, huh? Not to mention the bad jokes.

I suppose Ch 3? will have her cheating on her GNO?

The English Dept. dude was “acting inappropriately”...by TALKING to her? Making her giggle? Standing close to her so they could hear each other in a noisy, crowded, bar?

You guys all need anger management!

It was pretty bad though. Already 2 chapters in so I'm going to see it through. I don't see much hope for this at all though. There seems to be signs that the wife is/has already cheated on him before.

One of the most basic things to do if you are planning on hurting someone is to check for cameras... That's the basic of basics. These are not tiny cameras either especially if they all outside. How would he not notice that?

These 2 chapters don't even seem like they are the same story. Are these just pot shots at authors or readers of LW section? If so that's just lame and I'm out.

Have sex with some other girls and move on. She's not his first choice anyways. This chapter was just annoying.

Ahhh! It’s always so satisfying when you spend months formulating a story in your head, weeks writing that story, and days editing it, only to find that once it’s been posted, absolutely no one recognized or understood any of the points you made! It seems as though LW readers only read the parts of the story that fit their worldview and ignore the parts that don’t. Let me don my mining helmet and shine a little light on some parts you guys apparently missed.

1) Jessica may have been RAPED. It’s a borderline case. If she took it to court, a jury might be convinced she was raped. She certainly didn’t ask for it to happen to her. The LW Taliban apparently believes a raped woman should be condemned if she doesn’t fight back hard enough, or if her pussy was wet during the assault.

2) Dave didn’t “settle” for Jessica in the end. He finally realized that she was the best thing to ever happen to him, and his family was more important than his ego. So he became a better man to win her back.

3) Everyone seems to have ignored the fact that Dave had a 15-year emotional affair that he tried to hide from his wife. LW readers seem to believe that type of affair is more acceptable than a one-time borderline rape. Most normal people would disagree.

4) Yes, we ALL carry emotional baggage from our childhood. Is this news? Dave carries a LOT of baggage. Throughout the story he deals with it as best he can and eventually finds a way to harness all his anger and become a better man.

5) I wrote at the very beginning of the first chapter that this is a two-part story. There are no more chapters. Dave is in a much healthier place in his life. He’s back with Jessica. He’s broken ties with Melanie, and now shares his feelings and emotions with his wife instead. And he’s a much better father. What more is there to tell?

6) Yes, Lue, there was a pickaxe. It’s a mine!

This was a decent way to end it, but felt a bit underwhelming. Dave goes all Hulk Smash on the newly reborn Dylan, then tries to feel out a connection with the best friend. It felt rushed, in that he was teleported to a table with her, but after her polite rejection, flies home to drink away his sorrows. Honestly, I'm not sure what it needed, but it felt like it was a cliffs notes version. I also feel like this is cimplete, and not really sure where else it can go...

Meh

She said she wasn't. Plus she doesn't even care (Her words). The "emotional affair" didn't seem so bad because it was barely mentioned. That was really the end? Man this story was such a bummer.

This story had a point. No one cares about that point because it's lame trolling, but it's a point.

Definitely liked it but you didn't make me like Jessica. On the contrary, I'm actually a bit more disgusted. Sex and sexual satisfaction, along with overall satisfaction and approval from a mate, is extremely important.

I'm not totally endeared to Dave either. They needed to communicate about the sex she had with Dylan the douche/almost rapist and their own sex life.

That shit needs hammered out and worked through. I'm always let down when an author won't dig into such a vitally important subject.

Both people were in the wrong here and it seems only one of many issues was addressed, namely his anger.

Her adulterous sex wasn't addressed or her other poor choices about not communicating that rather serious problem with her husband. She was at least as guilty of a lack of communicating her feelings as her husband and is a pretty big hypocrite for being upset about his closeness towards her while she was keeping something pretty goddamned important to herself.

His emotional affair with his friend wasn't worked out between them either and this reconciliation felt very one side and one dimensional.

I absolutely loved what there was here and his gesture at the restaurant with the you tube video added was well done but this was simply unfinished.

She did damn little to heal her marriage and he only dealt with one issue while making, a very charming, attempt to win her back.

This was a great plot that could really use some serious filling in.

It is a very interesting jigsaw picture that is still missing large sections and hopefully the box isn't empty yet.

Dave did not deserve to be shit on and does deserve healing, closure and assurance from his wayward wife, in the sex department as well as with communication which she has been extremely lacking in.

She did not deserve having to deal with fear of his anger, though he dealt with it, or his lack of emotional connection with her while he carried on an emotional liason with another woman, though it was apparently one sided.

Not dealt with and disappointed that this rather explosive and electrifying plot wasn't given it's due.

Definitely appreciate the effort you put into this and it is one of those stories that sparks my own creativity. Best I have read here in some time.

I meant closedness towards her which actually isn't a word?

Too much beer 🍺 last night....

But Jess is not a likeable person and the dangling ending is no ending. When she gets buzzed she forgets she's married and going out with the drunk sluts without her husband in her case is premeditation for a rerun of the Dylan episode that won't end well this time, because a man can only take her mental abuse so long before he breaks. Especially one with a predisposition to anger. So we must accept the fact that she intends to ruin the marriage a second time because she is selfish... If that was your intent, then you made your point Jess is a selfish bitch.

If I had included one additional scene between Dave and Jessica where they discussed their affairs again, would that have filled in the gaps? I just felt like it would be repetitive, since they hashed it all out in the truck already. What more was there to say? Either you accept each other’s apologies and move on or you don’t.

All too often in LW, we see men who refuse to move on and “dump the bitch.” They almost always immediately fall in love with a much better woman and live happily ever after. That seems unrealistic to me given this deeply-flawed main character.

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

I gave you a five on number one in anticipation of chapter two. Though written well you left it hanging at the end and some questions unanswered. You wrote a large comment before that many people had commented (trying to stave off other comments).

I would like to comment on your comments.

1. I think any reasonable human would agree that 'No means No' wet or not.

2. Dave had demons he needed to take care of and no he didn't settle for Jessica, he would have followed through with the divorce if he didn't really care for her.

3. Until Jessica said something to him he viewed Melanie as a dear friend. You made that evident in your story by having Dave leave the East Coast and move west but not ask her to go with him. The taking Jessica to meet her would be no different than the introducing Dave to her friends.

4. True, we all have emotional baggage from our childhood, some more than others. If you were never picked on when you were little and called names it's hard to understand how it makes one feel. To the comment that he joined the football team and had to shower with the other players, you did write as to how he still felt or if he still waited till the other guys finished their showers before he took his.

5. Yes you wrote that this would only be two chapters, but like most of your other stories you didn't finish it. The way I see it the difference between your stories and comments from the BTB crowd is in most BTB stories they are written to have a finish. With your talent I'm sure you could write a book but it would have to have a finished ending why not try that now.

Answer the questions like did Jessica know about his mom? In his writing fiction stories did he try and get any published? Did Jessica after they got back together consider what a GNO would look like to him? Did Dave find another job? FTDS doesn't submit any more so it is up to you to finish your own story or state that you are open to anyone other person's ending to your story. Thank you for your time.

Swingerjoe, I don't get what the problem was for people. It seemed pretty clear to me, I will send you a message about my story.

“Answer the questions like did Jessica know about his mom? In his writing fiction stories did he try and get any published? Did Jessica after they got back together consider what a GNO would look like to him? Did Dave find another job? FTDS doesn't submit any more so it is up to you to finish your own story or state that you are open to anyone other person's ending to your story. Thank you for your time.”

Sorry, but that all sounds incredibly dull to me! Presumably, when Dave and Jessica shared their life stories at the diner, she would have learned about his parents. I don’t know what can be gained by learning the details of that conversation.

Why would it matter if he ever had any stories published? He doesn’t write for profit; he writes for therapy.

If Dave can’t trust Jessica to go out with her friends for a night, he shouldn’t be married. Does he expect her to abandon her social life and become a hermit because she was once assaulted?

Dave’s employment history after this story doesn’t seem interesting or relevant to me.

Because I’m always trying to improve as a writer, I need to know what readers don’t like about my stories. So I thank you — sincerely — for letting me know. I just don’t have any interest in writing a follow-up chapter that answers any of those questions. To me, this one feels as finished as it could possibly be. But I open an invitation to anyone — yourself included, dragonmann — to finish this story if you’d like. Have at it!

"He found her standing with her back against the wall near the restrooms. She was chatting with a man who was leaning with one hand against the wall - a little too close for Dave's comfort. The man leaned in further to speak in her ear and she giggled in response."

Yes, that IS inappropriate behavior for most anyone, but PARTICULARLY for a work superior. Two people in a semi-private location, the boss has her partially trapped. The leaning in COULD be due to noise, but they're near the restrooms, probably not quite so noisy, and with her giggle I'm sure he wasn't talking about work!

Talking to someone is inappropriate? Seriously?? So, how close is too close? What if it really was noisy in that part of the bar? What if she didn’t giggle? Where on earth do you draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate?

What is wrong with you people?!

Good lord.

“With her giggle I’m sure they weren’t talking about work.”

Oh, really?

“Did you get a load of Principal Harris and his toupee? Who does he think he’s fooling?”

Is it your default assumption that women are untrustworthy sluts who can’t be trusted to have a private conversation with a man in a public place? What an amazingly unhealthy view of women you guys seem to have.

I don't know if you took my comment to heart last story about the emotional affair vs. physical affair stuff, but I'm happy it was covered so realistically in this story.

That does not mean it's clean, but real life is messy. The immersion factor is even stronger because these characters are so frustratingly stubborn. I still think the wife needs therapy too. She has anger issues, but more in line with stereotypical more a female touch. Men tend to lash out verbally or physically when feeling hurt and cornered, and women resent in this slow building and toxic way. How she handled the big fight/confrontation in this story is proof that she's just as unstable as he is. True, she won't hurt anyone and that's all society looks at, but therapy isn't JUST about making you safe. I'm a pretty safe guy that got over his anger issues LONG before I took therapy. It just helped me sort things out.

Just like the husband needs to slowly move on from his hurt and accept that emotional affairs are a BIG deal for a woman, the wife needs to let go of Melanie and accept that a physical affair is more a big deal for him. Just as he needs to stop putting himself in a position to make besties with females, she needs to consider physically going to bars with younger men as.....not smart. He could, for example, take his guy friends to a book club to have stimulating conversations with the random females you know will be there. That's exactly why "girl's night out" is so cringe for a guy, especially one that is trying to get over a wife's affair.

So, the conclusion is good and believably unsatisfying. It takes so much work for couples to bounce back and they seemed to have fallen into the trap of doing the bare minimum. But honestly, like his son, they could take a page and take an interest in eachother's hobbies. The love is there at least. But they are both gun shy it seems of another shouting match.

"Is it your default assumption that women are untrustworthy sluts who can’t be trusted to have a private conversation with a man in a public place?"

That's a really, really bad example dude considering... All this stuff you're saying in the comments is a lot different than the story you wrote. Did you really write this?

"Does he expect her to abandon her social life and become a hermit because she was once assaulted?" First of all she already cheated on him and is untrustworthy.

Second stop saying she was assaulted! She wasn't! You wrote her character. You wrote her dialogue. She literally did not care. No jury would ever say she was raped.

"He didn't rape me."

"Yes! Yes, he had a big, fucking, monster dick."

"Son of a bitch. He gave me his word." Meaning oh you raped me! But you better not tell anyone!

"Honey," she said, "you've been having an affair for as long as we've been together." Oh he raped me, but you've been having an affair with another woman! In no world does this sound like someone who was assaulted.

What Jameis Winston did to that Uber driver, that's sexual assault. This I'm not telling you if it felt good or not because if I said it felt good then you will divorce me! You can say oh rape victims sometimes freeze in fear. That might be true, but her words to her husband do not say that at all.

"The LW Taliban apparently believes a raped woman should be condemned if she doesn’t fight back hard enough, or if her pussy was wet during the assault." She said no like twice? Really? Oh he didn't listen to me say no, So I guess I better just lie here and wait for his horrendous act of rape is over. No biggie, I said no so what else can I do?

The emotional affair with Melanie was talked about briefly. Since you mentioned it in the comments I do agree now that was a pretty crappy thing for him to do.

She didn’t ask Dylan to attack her. She told him to stop. She didn’t use her hands or mouth on him. She didn’t kiss him. She didn’t pull her panties down for him. She didn’t moan and call out his name in passion.

I shouldn’t even have to mention this in our “woke” #metoo age, but there is an incredibly fine line between consensual and nonconsensual sex. Dylan’s assault (and yes it’s assault when you throw yourself on top of a woman without consent) happened so fast, she had no time to react. The wine also contributed to her delayed reaction. It was so unexpected she didn’t know what to do.

When it was over, she was ashamed and embarrassed. Of course she didn’t want to tell Dave what happened, given his history of violence, and given the fact that she loved her husband and valued her marriage. So when Dylan said he’d never tell anyone what happened, she was relieved to put it in the past and pretend it never happened.

I have a bad habit of assuming my readers understand my characters as well as I do. Because of that, I tend to skip past what I consider to be boring and unnecessary details. If your default assumption is that Jessica is a good woman and devoted wife who didn’t ask to be assaulted, then those details aren’t necessary to advance the story. If your default assumption is that Jessica must be a lying, cheating, slut who enjoyed her assault and kept it from her husband because she’s duplicitous and untrustworthy, then more detail is necessary.

In my experience writing for this site, however, I’ve found that NO amount of detail is ever adequate to convey to readers that any female character is trustworthy or noble.

Of course he was jealous of the co-worker. That was a natural response. His out of control actions and finally dealing with his anger issues was the story. Yes, she was wrong but his anger and inability to control it was the real issue . Dylan deserved an ass-kicking but not murder. This was a good story that deserves at least a 4 - maybe 5. Thanks Joe

. . . was Joe working through the differences in how men and women see affairs. Men tend to be more concerned about the physical act, so very worried that the other guy is better in bed/has a bigger dick, and Joe wrote all of that in there. Women have less problem with the physical act, and are more worried about the emotional aspect: is my husband in love with her. By Dave not having screwed Melanie, Joe put that exactly in context.

Nevertheless, it still didn’t seem to me that chapters one and two went together.

A well-written piece, I enjoyed it.

After reading the story I decided to comment. Then I read the comments. Including the author's comments. I've always thought it to be a worthless exercise in futility to argue with the commentators. It's simply a lose/lose scenario. That being said, Swingerjoe never hesitates to wade in - whether it's his story or another's story. Joe has an opinion. Most others seem to delight in trashing him, regardless of the subject. And that's within their rights as Trolls. They seem to enjoy it. Before I comment on the story I will simply say this to Swingerjoe - "You can't please all the people, all of the time". And I KNOW you understand how contentious the Loving Wives section in Literotica has become. You're in it all of the time. So I can't imagine you're surprised or offended by the comments. That said, I didn't like this particular story. Whether or not she was raped was an issue in this sorry tale. And while it's totally and completely unfair, she put herself in the position and the ensuing actions were, to some degree, her fault. Is that fair? Hell no! Women, in fiction and in real life, should expect to be safe from predators. But the reality is is they're not. So she shoulders some of the blame for what happened. Is it fair that Dave blames her? No. Is it fair that he's jealous and insecure? No. But she knew all those things about him and married him anyway. She even knew about his emotional affair with Melanie and didn't speak up. These two have TERRIBLE communication skills. I just didn't see a happy ending for them. After all that happened, Jessica moved out and would have immediately filed for a restraining order and a divorce. She was genuinely afraid of him. So RAACing them seemed both improbable and wrong. As for your comment that Dave's in a better place, that was a joke. His anger is still seething just below the surface as demonstrated by his reaction to Jessica announcing (with no conversation before hand - those lousy communication skills again) she was going out with the girls. His smile fads, he forces a grin and he retreats to his blowoff value - writing. To me, that's a man just waiting to explode. All he needs is the right fuse. One last point and I'll climb down off my soapbox. You commented that you had spent a lot of time on this and I understand how long it takes to write something down. But you were disappointed that no one seemed to understand the "points" you were trying to make. Are you really writing a story to make a point or two? That seems (to me) to be the wrong attitude. You're on a porn site, on the world wide web. You think readers are here looking for "points"? Funny, I thought they were here to be entertained and amused. Silly me.

I'm just reading or skimming the story. She's telling her husband she wasn't raped. She wouldn't even tell him that she didn't enjoy it. She said she wasn't drunk just buzzed. Delayed reaction? What was he a Two Pump Chump? I can see your point but don't agree.

From Dylan's POV though. He has this hot drunk (he thinks) woman come into his home. He comes out of the bathroom and she's even sitting on his bed! She said no she has a husband. Don't rape me because I have a husband! Not because it sucks to get raped. When confronted by Dave he didn't even have a single thought about what he did was rape. He only admitted to Dave he had sex with Jessica because he was born again and wanted to confess his sins for sleeping with another man's wife.

Although re-reading his confession when he was tied in the mines does make it seem like he is a huge POS. So he probably does think every woman wants him and nothing he could do could be rape.

I thought you did give us some details. The conversation between the husband and wife was the details I thought. The only thing I thought that you didn't clear up was the "emotional affair". That was just glossed over. You said he was just texting Melanie saying he loves her, but he says that to all his friends. I didn't think that was a big deal at first. Now if what you say is true the it was a pretty crappy thing to do and I don't really feel as bad for him now.

I did think he went to Melanie again because his wife left him. I changed my mind about Jessica not being his first choice. If you say it was a full blown emotional affair and just didn't want to go into boring details then yeah that's really crappy of him.

I still don't buy that the wife was raped. Yeah maybe she didn't fully want it in the first place, but her actions didn't really say that. Yeah maybe she was ashamed of it and didn't want to report it or tell anyone. When she got confronted though she could've said all that to her husband! But she didn't. She just said she wasn't raped. He had a big dick. Husband did ask for that though.

I'm going off the story that I read. All of it makes it seem like Jessica is untrustworthy. She seemed totally fine with her "rapist" being stuck down in the mine. She also didn't want her rapist to get killed. Maybe I could understand that if all he did was grope her. Maybe said something crude to her, but you're saying she flat out got raped. Not just sexual assault. Full blown rape. Is she an angel?

"His smile fads, he forces a grin and he retreats to his blowoff value - writing. To me, that's a man just waiting to explode. All he needs is the right fuse." - You don't understand - "Dave" is Joe's stand-in for Vandemonium1. Joe's "theory" is that Van and people who enjoy his stories are insecure little men with anger issues. Van's main character is always named Dave. Draw your own conclusions.

I'm conflicted about what the Dylan/Jessica encounter was.

To me, it was obviously rape. She was intoxicated past the legal limit, he physically restrained her, and she repeatedly said No. I don't see how anyone could call this anything *except* rape.

... except *she* thinks otherwise. If, at a point when it would be really useful for her marriage for her *not* to have consented to sex, she wants to declare "He didn't rape me", it's hard for me to say that she's not the one who gets the final word. I mean, I get how rape victims often dislike identifying as such, but at the same time, it feels like I'm denying her any agency in defining for herself what the sex she engaged in meant.

And, if it wasn't rape then yeah, him asking why she did it, and whether she enjoyed it, and how big his dick was are all reasonable questions, just like any other one-night stand, if that's what she's going to insist this was.

As for the incident in the bar: Yes, he behaved like an insane person.

However, I'll admit that a girlfriend cozied up to another guy, giggling as he leans in close and whispers in her ear, doesn't look that great to me, though it's hard to tell if (a) this is a guy she's close enough to that giggling in dark corners is the natural level of friendship they have, at which point if the boyfriend doesn't even know that he exists, that's not a good sign, or (b) she's being sexually harassed by her boss, and knows he's harmless enough (and may or may not be right about that) that it's easier just to play along.

(Also, did she actually sleep with the guy that night? That was the implication I took from her telling Dave that she needed to do "everything [she] can" to smooth things over, after Dave asked if she was going to go home with him, but I'm not sure if that was intended. Not necessarily a trust violation, because she told him flat-out she was going to do it, but feels like if that was what was going on, that's big enough it would have shown up in the later conversations.)

Honestly, the story reads fairly ambiguously to me. The husband is insanely jealous, but it's not clear to me whether the wife is actually trustworthy. Was the wife that naive that she didn't realize what Dylan was planning when he invited her up to his apartment, or was it just that she got turned off by his rape-y approach? Did the husband not notice how shaken up she was in the aftermath of the incident because he's a shitty husband, or was it really no big deal to her?

But regardless of all of that, I still think she deserves better than her husband.

He carried on an emotional affair during the entire marriage. When called on it, his next step was to head off and explore whether Melanie was interested in cheating on her husband. Only after realizing that wasn't an option, and after considering how tough it would be to start over, did he reluctantly decide to try to win back his wife.

If we had a scene in there in which he realized that he wasn't actually in love with Melanie, and was in love with his wife, maybe I could call this a happy ending. As is, however, it just comes off as sad and pathetic, as he settles for the only woman he thinks will ever love him, and she gets a blob of (hopefully mostly repressed) anger and resentment to deal with.

It did feel like swingerjoe was taking pot shots at somebody. Also how do women give consent? It's certainly not verbally. Never met a girl that just says yes you may touch my boobs now. Yes undress me. Yes we may engage in sex. No one talks like that. It's all body language.

I've only seen 1 story on Lit that was like that. Can't even find it again.

Also why this story was such a bummer. SwingerJoe says Dave is much better off now. That last sentence though doesn't say that at all. No communication just sulking and stirring and typing till the next thing that sets him off.

where are all the people who cry rape for a story like this? Here's the problem with this, your making excuses again. She didn't say no, yet she ends up on some guys bed. how did that happen, he stopped on front of his apartment and if she didn't what to be there, why get out of the car? why is a married woman in another mans apartment. I guess he didn't have any chairs there so she sat on the bed. And if this was a guy or some teenage girl. The first thing everyone asks is why did you put your self in than situation? But a grown ass woman, a wife and mother....naaaaw she would never be alone in some mans bedroom. She didn't call it rape because the 1st question the cop would have asked is, "What were you doing there?

SwingerJoe you said "Default Assumptions" and that's not fair because the first thing in the story we find out is the wife is leaving the husband because Dave did something bad to Dylan. That gets us thinking it's because she cheated and then we found out that's correct she did cheat. So that's the first thing in the story you tell us is that she cheated. Then the "assault" comes later on.

So in order we find out wife is cheater then it gets confirmed in a cliff hanger. You already put the idea that the wife is untrustworthy in our heads. So you can't go with Default Assumptions.

I don't know why I care so much about this story. I blame the cliff hanger. I really do it's the all the cliff hangers fault. Then this MeeToo movement and the Jameis Winston total slap on the wrist 3 game suspension created a perfect storm.

I've got an interesting background with a lot of real world experience with marriage, relationships and cheating.

There are very few couples that would recover from infidelity the way this was portrayed and even fewer that would get to a healthy level in their marriage ever again.

You did make it very obvious that they loved each other and apologized for their actions. Jessica never let another douche bag, did he have to have a huge dick?, fuck her and Dave broke off correspondence with his longtime friend.

Those were the bare minimum of actions required to stop the bleeding. There was still a lot of issues to work through. Why she did it? She loved her husband and it didn't stop her from fucking horse cock and she still doesn't know why? Problems. He was severely emotionally damaged, especially considering his back story, and that damage just doesn't heal without help. She appeared to not really understand that he needed reassurances and trust building behavior. GNO? Seriously? After fucking up her marriage by being a slut for no apparent reason and withholding that pretty important information for years? That jackass he worked overtime to save was smiling at him for years without him knowing he treated the mother of his children like a cheap piece of ass, just another notch on his bedpost.

It takes more than an "I'm sorry" and "Fuck you, you don't need all the details" to get over a betrayal like that.

Her pathetic communication skills were still an issue. She was very bothered by his friendship from high school but didn't address it and also didn't address her own fuckery.

Your fantasy stuff is very fun, just finished your blow job contest trilogy, but this was a very gritty and realistic step into a real feeling family and situation.

It would not have been resolved this way and that is what left me feeling this was a great picture that was missing big pieces.

Couples usually have to go and open some ugly, dark rooms within themselves and clean them out to overcome shitty behavior like this. I have never seen anything but honesty and truth, as painful as it is, succeed in restoring a broken marriage but even allowing it to grow stronger.

I have actually been amazed at how many couples actually reconciled once total honesty was employed. I have witnessed that people can work with the truth and build from it and on it. Deception, hiding painful truths, lying and not being fully honest are tools to dismantle an otherwise healthy marriage and absolute destruction for an already broken one.

I have seen cheating wives who did not like sex with their husbands or care if they ever had sex with them again be turned into lapdancing nymphos, who couldn't wait to seduce their husbands and fuck their brains out!

It took a lot more to even basically survive the infidelity than was written here, much less prosper and grow.

You had some of the elements in place and they were great. There wasn't enough from either side, mostly Jessica's, to warrant a reconciliation much less a healthy marriage.

BTW. In the real world example I mentioned above, the husband was not in bad shape, a computer geek and he was hung like a fucking stallion. She cheated with a steroid junky that was hung like a roll of nickels.

Bad ending

Jessica also obviously had inappropriate feelings for the horse cock, douche, rapist?

When she found out Dylan was caught in the collapse, she had a very strong emotional reaction. Understandable actually, but never explored, just left out there hanging.

He doesn't trust himself and feels inferior to everyone. He obviously doesn't trust his wife, with good reason. She seemed to be purposely vague throughout the story. Then, at the end, it's "Oh, didn't I tell you". It left the impression, that there is a lot more to her story than appears. She knows how violent he can react, but it seems she is playing with fire, and doesn't give a damn who gets burned, or how bad.

I'm fully aware that it isn't cool to comment on your own story or respond to comments from others on your own story. As a writer, you're supposed to place yourself on a pedestal and refuse to correspond with the masses. I have never claimed to be one of the cool kids.

@ anony (comment on the comments)

Trust me, I'm well aware that all LW readers cannot possibly be pleased. Even the best writers in this category are forced to endure the occasional "eat my used condom" or "1* fag cuck shit." I get it. Still, it frustrates me when people miss the point of one of my stories.

And yes, there must be a "point" to a story. One of my most frequent comments here is: "What was the point?" If a story doesn't have a point, then why bother writing it? Yes, this is a porn site on the "world wide web," which is why for many of the stories posted here, the point is to arouse (i.e. "stroke stories.") One of the things I like best about LW is that the stories are often more cerebral. I've written plenty of stroke stories, but have lost interest in them lately. Maybe I'm just getting old.

@ deblackbuster

Points well taken. I clearly didn't do a very good job fleshing out Jessica's character -- or her explanation for what happened that night. I intentionally tried to leave it vague as to what happened, but seemingly left it too vague. Regardless of how you interpret that encounter between Jessica and Dylan, the fact remains that she never asked for it to happen and told him to stop. That makes her unlike the vast majority of cheating wives portrayed in LW.

@ sbrooks (and all the rest who have mentioned Vandy)

My main character's name is Dave. (Is Vandy's real name Dave?) A pickaxe was mentioned. Is that really all you have to tie together your conspiracy theory? As clearly stated in my intro, any similarity between the characters in this story and any real-life person or people is purely coincidental.

@ Valint

Is it possible Jessica is in denial about what happened to her? Maybe she's so traumatized by it that she can't admit what actually happened, and blames herself for it. That seems not only plausible, but highly likely. And that's what I tried to portray. Instead, readers seem eager to blame the victim.

Re. her alleged affair with her English Dept. head, that never even crossed my mind. It's funny how a scene describing two adults having a conversation in a bar and laughing leads to such sinister conclusions! Since I created her character, I can tell you with certainty that she did not have an affair of any kind with anyone.

Re. his relationship with Melanie, I thought I made it clear that he had no physical attraction to her, but felt a very strong emotional connection. He traveled to her place to see if maybe there was something there worth exploring, and she politely shot him down. At that point, he reflects on his life and realizes what an amazing gift it was that Jessica came into his life. He didn't "settle" for her. He realized she was the best thing to happen to him. Big difference.

@ deblackbuster ("Do agree with what sbrooks wrote")

If I wanted to take "pot shots" at someone, trust me, it would be far more blistering than this. If Dave is supposed to be a pot shot at someone, he would have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and would be a one-dimensional cartoon character. Dave is an upstanding, hardworking, guy, who took a leadership role in the rescue effort, and became a loving husband and dad. He also happened to be insecure, angry, and prone to violence (all for valid reasons, which I provided.) Like all of us, he's a complex and multidimensional person with both good and bad qualities.

"Consent" is one thing. Saying "no" is another. Jessica said "no" -- which Dylan interpreted to mean "yes."

As for Dave's current status, he's back home, back with Jessica and his children, is far healthier both physically and mentally, and is coping with his anger issues through therapy, meditation, and writing as an outlet. How on earth isn't he better off than he was at the beginning of the story?

@ Huedogg2

Yes, she did say no. She got out of the car because he wanted to show her his yearbook, and she was a little too tipsy and a little naive, so she made a bad judgment decision and took him at his word. Has this never happened? Has a good person never made a bad decision -- especially under the influence of alcohol?

Your assertion that women shouldn't "put themselves in that situation" sounds like victim-shaming to me. It's HER fault that this douchebag jumped on top of her? Really? Should women not dress provocatively because it provokes rapists into raping them? This mindset is what leads to women covering themselves from head to toe with burkas.

@ deblackbuster ("Again"!)

You find out a woman is leaving her husband, and your assumption is that it "gets you thinking it's because she cheated?" Why would she leave him if she's the one who cheated? Why would you assume that? Wouldn't you assume HE cheated?

@ silentsound

Let me repeat this for you guys: there is NOTHING wrong with a wife going out with her friends. If you guys keep your wives chained at home because you can't trust them not to fuck around on you, I feel sorry for you.

As for Jessica's communication skills, it was mentioned several times in the story that she tried to communicate with Dave to no avail. He refused to open up to her. She didn't find out that he was opening up to Melanie until just before the mining accident. At that point, why on earth would she confront him? Why add that to all the other pressures he was under? It was an act of compassion on her part not to confront him.

You're absolutely right that a real-life reconciliation would require SO much more dialog and communication and therapy and healing than I mentioned in this story. I really had no interest in writing a 10-page story detailing all of that. One of the points to this story was showing how a man could overcome his insecurity and anger issues and learn to appreciate everything he had in his life instead of throwing it all away to preserve his ego.

Re. Jessica's feelings for Dylan, I didn't intend for that gasp to mean she had feelings for him. I'm sure she despised him. The gasp was merely supposed to be a gasp of recognition. But I can see how that could have been misinterpreted.

Normal behavior can be interpreted the wrong way, will wait till the end to see where it goes, I my experience sexual experiences outside the marriage never make the marriage better.

Should become Couples' Night Out. They should be best friends with no secrets. She's had a physical affair after a booze-filled night with her "Friends". She is no longer trustworthy.

And if they all were suddenly struck by God's Admit Your Affairs With Married Women Ray and felt an irresistable need to go and confess to all the wronged husbands.

Wouldn't that be fun?

Then, after the dust settled, God could develop a female version.

Lue

Not sure why the negative comments. Concerning the writing - good pacing and dialogue, about the right amount of detail. Concerning the plot - flawed people working through their mistakes and faults, which is very credible. I like the ending even though I usually don't like RAAC. I started reading the comments but gave up - too many and too long.

Interesting concept. I sense a chain story in the works. We could pull together all of our like-minded allies, friends, and fans from the LW community, including...

...umm...

...yeah, never mind.

I like the introduction of a character that finds God and steps up to the plate. You don't see that very often in a LW's story. It added a touch of the real world. Not myself, but I have met people really who turned themselves around for the betyer with religion. Some went quite over the top to the point it wasn't a pleasure to be in their company. But they were not hurting anyone or themselves. Life is complex. Even more so in the infinity number of stories that a possible in the LW's section. *****

Well Joe, you’ve finally made the big time—you’ve joined President Trump as one of the “enlightened ones” target. You know the group I mean—they’re the people who can’t understand the meaning of the word fiction and are always thinking the characters we write are really indications of how we live our lives. Such people are to be pitied. The worst part is, they have no idea what they’re missing.

If you were to walk on water many of your detractors would bitch that you couldn’t swim. That’s just the way it is.

On to this story: you have done as masterful job of creating a hero who has all the warts and is also hateful. I disagree with those who feel the wife wasn’t adequately developed. Yes, she could have been better developed, but that’s not your story. Jessica plays a secondary part—a woman who made one mistake and will pay for it the rest of her life—in her mind, at least. She’s a controlled momma grizzly looking out for her cubs while not burning bridges with daddy bear.

Daddy bear is such an ass, Momma bear could have easily become the star of the story, but she continued in character. Good Job!

I never cease to be amazed by those who criticize how we end a story. They don’t realize we do it on purpose, simply to give them the chance to write the ending in their own minds.

BTW the big money writers do it to. For example the movie “Unfaithful” which ends with the hubby and wife sitting in a car stopped on a street in front of the Police Station. If you readers saw this movie, did the husband go in and confess to killing the wife’s lover?

The first two times I saw it I ended the story with a yes. Last week I watched again and no longer think he did. It’s a dang good story, if you missed it! (Will have to dig deep in the oldies for this one.)

Joe, I gave you full marks, mainly for making me so pissed off at that ass of a husband. Any writer that can affect a reader like that is doing a great job.

how did the wife find out what he did to her old lover? The wife was a paper cut out character with no real development. The amusing part about that is this is one of your main complaints about other people's stories.

You just can't help yourself. You wonder why so many people post negative feedback on your stories when you continuously shit disturb. This story was nothing more than a dig at another author. I guess it was a successful troll in that you got some people to respond.

Luedon’s Admit Your Affairs With Married Women Ray for men, or the female version? Then add the Admit Your Down-Low Homo Screwing Ray. Finally the Admit You Watch Porn Ray.

Man made global warming would be solved, ‘cause there’d be only 14 people left alive.

There is nothing inherently wrong in GNO's, guys have Boys Night Out all the time.

The difference, at least in the LW world, is that the guys go out, bowl, shoot pool, play cards, maybe even go out for a few drinks, whereas the women go clubbing, and dancing with strange men.

If wives want a night out without their husbands, there are many things they can do: Dinner, museums/galleries, theater, ballet.

Clubbing for BOTH partners should be as couples, dancing with other partners only with the spouse's permission.

I want to stress that I'm talking about the LW world, not the real world.

First, we are well aware that the characters are fiction, and if writers don't want us to get involved with their stories, then they shouldn't post them on a public site.

As far as Trump goes, it's interesting that you mention fiction, since he lives in his own fictional world of "Alternative Facts."

Best to chain our women to the oven to make sure they don’t stray too far, am I right, guys?

"Do agree with what sbrooks wrote" fair enough on the pot shot thing.

As for Dave's current status. That I do think it seems like he is waiting to blow. It's probably because it didn't go into a bunch of details. If you say he's fine then I take your word for it and believe Dave is a happy man now. Doesn't seem that way from reading the end though. I understand what you saying about not wanting the wife locked up at home, but she was in a bad situation 5 or 6 years ago. Now she wants to go out for drinks with friends (similar situation as before) for the night. Do agree with whoever said they should be best buds with no secrets. They also seem like they still have a communication problem. Dave not saying anything and just forcing a smile and doing his anger outlet thing.

"Again" I've read enough LW stories to know that the possibilities for why the wife is leaving is ENDLESS! Maybe she found another lover. Maybe she wants a separation or to find herself. Maybe she wants to be a groupie for her favorite band, I don't know!

For real though it's because Dave beat up Dylan. Only good reason for him to beat him up is because he slept with his wife. Also "Yeah, well you broke some promises, too, remember?" Plus it's LW section.

I do appreciate the time that you put into this story and the comments you've been writing. I actually appreciate the story a little more now.

@thecarolinadreamer I like to think that the characters or the story I'm reading is real while I'm reading it. For me that makes the story so much better. It can also make the story so much worse. If I just tell myself oh this is all fiction, it makes everything boring and why bother reading it? I won't care about the story at all if I do that. I know it's not real, but I like to think of stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy as real WHILE I'm watching. It just makes it better for me.

Dave humbled himself and dealt with the anger and took her back beacause swingerjoe TOLD us she was the best he could hope for.

The problem is... we needed to be SHOWN why she was the best for him.

The bitch didn't do a damn thing to heal the rift between them. Another perfect, unaccountable female who bears no responsibility for absolutely anything.

The first part was fine. Part 2, though.. No, too much of a cop out for me.

Thanks for the read all the same.

I’m a man. I have NO idea how women think. No guy does. (Although the older i get, the more I delude myself into believing I do.) The guys who try to explain women’s behavior (especially in LW) embarrass themselves by posting stories with women who think the way they WISH they thought. I hesitate to even try to do so. The one story I wrote from a woman’s perspective, I made sure I sent it to a woman for her feedback before I posted it.

I write from a man’s perspective because it’s all I know. I write about flawed and multifaceted men because that’s what I am. I won’t apologize if that makes you uncomfortable.

So, having a wife that cooks and does the dishes so you can relax, who takes care of the kids for two weeks while you’re away, who gives you all the time and space you need (even if your emotional support comes from another woman), who brings you food and clothes while you’re on the job, who offers to “relieve your stress” with some impromptu sex...

...isn’t enough?

How many more scenes did I need to include to convince you she was a good wife?

He reminds me of the horrible dad in the horrible novel "The Corrections" by Frantzen. There is not much to love about the guy and he is a ticking time bomb and a horrible person. The Wife has a masters degree and a good job, why does she waste herself on him

He kidnapped that kid, bashed him and wanted to murder for fucking his WIfe, but then he went and tried to fuck Melania behind her husband's back. So, its okay for him to murder guys who fuck his WIfe and yet its also okay for him to fuck other men's Wives??? He only didnt fuck Melania because she turned the loser down! ANd he only didnt murder the Holy Roller because the victim pointed out he would get caught???

I assume you were focusing on the guy dealing with being cheated on, but, why the fuck should the WIfe get back together with him? She has no reason. The guy is a psychopathic asshole. Or, is that the Loving WIfe part? A loving WIfe remains together with a violent psychopathic asshole who will probably snap and murder her in a fit of rage.

Your comments are much better than your story. But you are a good writer so I'll check out your other stories. But please, stop trying to sell a deplorable homicidal psychopath as a lovable husband/dad.

Isnt it striking that most of your readers have no problems with the husbands character? Deplorables...

Rock on Mr SwingerJoe

""No," she said. "I don't know. Maybe. It doesn't matter."

Couldn't have said it better myself. She doesn't know if forcing a woman to fuck against her will is rape, and even if it is, it doesn't matter. A perfect sentiment from this author.

Could anyone intentionally compose more vapid dialogue? "Telling you may have eased my conscience, but it would have devastated you." What is it about being raped that gives her a guilty conscience? Would she expect her daughter to keep being raped to herself, to think it doesn't matter? Is she so stupid and short sighted she doesn't realize she was allowing this predator to rape other women after her? And why shouldn't he, it was great sex with Jessica. But what is really puzzling is that Dylan confessed having sex with his wife, but the husband doesn't demand to know all the details? Why doesn't the husband already know Dylan's version of the sex? If Dylan described it as a consensual fuck session why doesn't this angry caveman call his wife a liar as well as a slut?

"Son of a bitch. He gave me his word." Oops, I guess we can forget about her describing it as being forced. We can also forget anything else she denies. She fucked him and wants it to now be just forgotten. End of a marriage.

But at least we, finally, learn what the point of this story is: "You have been intimate with her in a way that you've never been with me. You gave her your heart. I never gave my heart to anyone but you." Another author using the tail to wag the plot. So who's the real adulterer? Well, I doubt their marriage vows included the promise that he would never love and cherish another person, male or female. Never included the promise that he would never enjoy a close personal friendship. His wife had his complete love, loyalty, and fidelity, but she wanted exclusive possession of his heart and soul and mind. Only be her friend, only enjoy her company, only think about her wants and needs and inadequacies. And, of course, forgive her for fucking one of her students, with apparently no real resistance. Maybe my biology is weak, but I don't think emotionally loving and cherishing another person outside of your marriage will give your wife a venereal disease, or cause the conception of an illegitimate child. Not even a nice try. Just some "equivalency" bullshit to equate physical adultery with intellectual and emotional camaraderie. Specious. Only a moron would buy that argument.

I'm embarrassed for you.

P.S. Dylan's got 2.5 million dollars, a handsome muscular body with a huge cock, and were supposed to believe she's going out with the girls? He already knows that she has been communicating with the born again predator. God, sometimes it just so hard to avoid a really mind blowing rape: "Don't make me, don't make me! You're going to make me, aren't you?"

Pathetic.

Read this. Ouch. Male? character development is a bit .... lacking?

I thought maybe I should try a reread after a scotch then realized that would be a waste of a good scotch.

Part 1 was interesting and showed promise, part 2 was awful!

The slut wife fucked a younger big-cocked guy. She obviously wasn't raped... if she was, why the hell would she beg him not to say anything to her husband?

Then the manipulative bitch somehow twists it around so that the cuck husband has to apologise and "Win her back"! After proving she's an easy whore who will spread her legs for a drink or two, the husband now has to grin and bear it, when she's off slutting around on a girls night?

You forgot to mention that as well as having a tiny dick, the husband has no balls...

Hamlet's not a likeable character either but he's received plenty of airtime through the centuries. I suspect Dylan might not be Dave's skull yet the introspection you've portrayed is close to the classic 2BrnotB. Congratulations on rocking our expectations. There's no absolute need to write a third chapter but you've got a lot to work with here. Dave's character is definitely FU, just like too many people I know (and at least one of my employees.) Good job.

"I have a bad habit of assuming my readers understand my characters as well as I do."

You know what they say about assumptions...

It's important to remember that the only insight we have into your characters are the words in the story. The wife worrying that the husband might beat the "rapist" to death is an important point and shouldn't have been glossed over.

As the story currently stands all we know is:

1) She fucked a younger guy

2) The wife tells the husband Dylan's got a massive cock (and she know's the husband is very insecure about cock size).

3) The wife lets slip that she told Dylan to never say anything to her husband.

4) Dylan, under threats of death told the husband when asked if she gave consent: "I thought so at the time. I mean...she was...wet." The implication is that the wife was into sex with him.

So you might not have intended it, but the impression you gave is that she enjoyed fucking the big dicked stud, didn't consider it a rape and tried to keep it quiet.

"So you're saying he raped you?"

"No," she said. "I don't know. Maybe. It doesn't matter."

"He didn't rape me."

That's not the dialogue of a raped woman. She comes across as totally blase about having sex with Dylan, so when she insists she wasn't raped, then goes on to attack the husband, it makes her seem like an unrepentant slut.

wife fucks another man and husband is the bad guy.have you people lost your fucking minds.

"Dylan Harrison. Did you fuck him?"

She looked at him incredulously, then her face crumpled and Jessica burst into tears.

"He raped me!"

Dave's knuckles cracked as he clenched down hard on the steering wheel. "That motherfucker... he's a dead man walking..."

"No, please don't!" Jessica gasped grabbing his arm, her face twisted in panic.

"What the fuck? You're protecting that piece of shit?!" Dave snarled.

She shook her head, tears rolling down her cheeks. "This is why I didn't tell you... I was so scared..."

"Scared? I would have put that bastard in the fucking morgue... then you wouldn't have been scared!"

"I was scared... of your temper. That you'd kill him and spend the rest of your life in jail... I couldn't do it to our children..."

Dave gaped at her in horror as he realised his wife had suffered in silence for 5 years, never bringing her rapist to justice because she was scared of his reaction.

--------

Something like that makes her sympathetic and makes Dave confront his anger. Ambiguity is a useful tool, but not if it leads your readers to make assumptions about your characters that you didn't intend.

Sure, that is more acceptable dialog for the BTB crowd, but I didn’t write this story for them.

One of the (MANY) questions I hoped to confront with this story is: at what point is it “cheating?” At what point do you decide that, regardless of everything else you and your wife have experienced together — for richer or poorder, in good times and bad, in sickness and health — how committed are you to those vows when actually tested? Will you bail at the first sign of trouble?

What if Dylan did, in fact, rape her against her will? Would that change your opinion of her? Or would she be damaged goods forever?

What if he just kissed her? What is she didn’t kiss back? What if he fucked her, but she didn’t enjoy it?

This is why, at one point in the story, I had her ask her husband, point-blank: does it matter if she was assaulted or she enjoyed it? If their marriage teetered on the fringe of the answer to that question, then was the marriage even worth saving?

Chaining "our" women? - I made it QUITE clear that I was talking about the LW universe, and not real life.

For better or for worse, in LW, when wives go to a GNO it's not just for a few drinks and idle chit-chat. They are often in situations that lead to inappropriate behavior.

I suppose it's necessary for me to repeat that I am NOT saying that this is the situation in real life.

Fair enough. I know you’ve been married longer than I have. There is no way your wife could have survived so many years with such a jealous and insecure husband that you wouldn’t allow her to socialize without you. I know that YOU know better.

"What if Dylan did, in fact, rape her against her will? Would that change your opinion of her?"

Of course! But your characters make it quite clear that she wasn't raped...

Dylan said: "Rape her? Hell, no! Come on, man. It wasn't like that."

The wife actually states: "He didn't rape me."

"does it matter if she was assaulted or she enjoyed it?"

Of course it matters If she was assaulted! It's her consent that's the big question here, not her enjoyment. Was she deliberately unfaithful to her husband, or was she sexually assaulted? the difference between the two is huge!

You obviously intended Jessica to be seen as a good, faithful wife that was victim of a rape, but that's NOT what you wrote.

The story says she wasn't raped, which means she cheated. Then she lied about it, showed no remorse for fucking the big-cocked stud, gets angry at the husband, leaves him, and made the husband grovel to win her back. After turning the husband into a cuck, she starts going out on girls nights, which obviously pisses the husband off, but he's so emasculated he just lets her go off to get some strange. (Remember, the story makes it quite clear that she's an easy lay when she's had a few drinks...)

If you make scenes ambiguous but heavily insinuate that the wife is deceitful, you shouldn't be surprised if the readers come to very different conclusions than you intended.

"Sure, that is more acceptable dialog for the BTB crowd, but I didn’t write this story for them."

If she was raped, she's not a bitch. Why would the "BtB crowd" want to see her burned? In those circumstances, I'd imagine that they want the husband to reap bloody vengeance against the rapist, not punish the poor wife.

So, where do you draw the line between rape and consent?

The difference between rape and consent is "no".

"So, where do you draw the line between rape and consent?"

In a story? I don't draw the line, the writer does.

You told us that she wasn't raped...

Your response clarified everything that wasn't made clear in the tale and I have a much more complete picture. Her response in the truck makes a lot more sense and makes her character much more sympathetic in light of her encounter with Dylan being non consensual than otherwise.

Dylan is actually more of a fucking villain however and deserved at least the beating if not being murdered.

I know many women, my wife included, who were victims of the semi rape described and her response was realistic though I do still fault her for not telling her husband. I do understand her reluctance given the emotional distance and his terrible temper.

I'm left with a much greater appreciation for this story with you being patient enough to comment. Thank you.

I still believe Dylan needed justice at some level. The beating and death scare he had was well deserved but I'm left wondering, how many women did he actually rape with his wonderful philosophy of no means yes.

Be interesting to see Dylan with a man loving monstrosity with a monster cock fucking him senseless after he said no.

Dylan getting somewhat away with it is fairly realistic if depressing. I can't see Jessica being at all upset that her husband beat the hell out of him.

If you ever write this shit fully out and flesh out the angles, you have amazing potential. I fully understand the boredom and tedium associated but it really does add amazingly to the story.

I suspect a decent I.Q. at play but extrapolating on assumed details is pure gold for authors even if tedious and boring.

I will take your input into consideration with future submissions and, more than likely, arrive at the same endgame you are striving for.

Thanks again for a thought provoking work.

"The difference between rape and consent is "no"."

Let me just write a quick scene. You tell me if the woman is giving consent:

Jessica sat on the edge of the bed, her erect nipples visible tenting the soft fabric of her dress. There was a smouldering burn of arousal in her smokey eyes as she gazed at her former student's huge cock. "My how you've grown, Dylan..."

"I've wanted you for years," he murmured, his eyes roaming over her stunning body. "I'm going to fuck you in ways you could only dream of..."

"No, Dylan..." Jessica purred, lying back on the bed and posing provocatively. She circled a painfully hard nipple with her finger. "I'm married. That would be... very naughty."

He grinned at her and approached the bed, his throbbing cock leading the way.

Jessica parted her thighs and inched up her dress, revealing her glistening pussy. She began to stroke her clit, her chest heaving with her arousal. "No... please don't fuck me with that huge cock... how will I ever be satisfied with my tiny husband?"

Crooking a finger, she beckoned Dylan closer, a lascivious smile on her lustful face.

----

Oh dear! She said "No" twice. In this scene, Jessica obviously has no interest in a sexual encounter with Dylan... right?

First let me say congrats on not only a great story but because some of the points you raise are valid on both sides of the street.

Your ending

"Hey, where are you going?" Dave asked.

"I'm going to get ready," she said.

"Ready for what?"

"Didn't I tell you? Sharon and a few of the other girls are getting together tonight for drinks. They invited me to come along. You don't mind, do you?"

The smile on Dave's face faded, but was soon replaced with a forced grin. "No, of course not. Have fun."

He moved to his chair in the living room and opened his laptop. A moment later, Jessica passed by and gave him a peck on the lips as she made her way toward the door.

"What are you up to over there?" she asked while putting on her coat.

"Just writing," he responded. He counted to ten and began typing.

The way your wrote this it reads like she is hiding something. 'Didn't I tell you' as she is going to get ready and then go out the door. You wrote about his facial change and then his response and how he had to count to ten my guess to control his temper.

Carolinadreamer

You know the group I mean—they’re the people who can’t understand the meaning of the word fiction and are always thinking the characters we write are really indications of how we live our lives. Such people are to be pitied. The worst part is, they have no idea what they’re missing.

Yes we know its fiction, but when it is written well enough you can live the story vicariously. So the comments show how well we liked or disliked it.

SJ

One of the (MANY) questions I hoped to confront with this story is: at what point is it “cheating?” At what point do you decide that, regardless of everything else you and your wife have experienced together — for richer or poorder, in good times and bad, in sickness and health — how committed are you to those vows when actually tested? Will you bail at the first sign of trouble?

As you wrote Jessica's character giving her explanation still saying the truth she could have sugar coated, she was the one at that time in the hot seat. She could have said it probably was but at the time she was so distraught and scared so couldn't tell. When asked about cock size (if she had had the talk about his childhood) to tell a lie wouldn't have hurt instead you chose to have her say "Yes! Yes, he had a big, fucking, monster dick. Does that make you happy? Does it make you sad? Does your self-worth depend on comparing dick sizes with another man?"

"Yes! Yes, he had a big, fucking, monster dick. Does that make you happy? Does it make you sad? Does your self-worth depend on comparing dick sizes with another man?"

To Brooks from Joe

Fair enough. I know you’ve been married longer than I have. There is no way your wife could have survived so many years with such a jealous and insecure husband that you wouldn’t allow her to socialize without you. I know that YOU know better.

I've probably been married longer than both of you and let me say jealousy and insecurity will follow you to your dying day.

Your closing comment: "let me say jealousy and insecurity will follow you to your dying day"

I really do hope that you are expressing the viewpoint of a very small minority of married people when you make that comment.

Lue

When you look at the number of responses to a simple story it's hard to hide the truth. Those that want to read nothing but BTB stories most likely have been burned at one time or another. Cuck stories are written by people who have self esteem issues. Swingers write from the angle that life is beautiful with more partners, have you ever asked the question 'If you feel you need more than one partner why did you get married'?

I read stories on this site not for jerking off but to see how other people view the world and life. Joe's story was great, I believe him when he said how long it took him to write, but I also remember his story he claimed he popped out in under an hour. On this site I have read great stories, good stories. bad stories and some really shitty ones. I see red when a good story is beat down because the author is disliked and at the same time because they are in with the in crowd they can do no wrong.

Back to Lue's comment, if you have never been the brunt of a bully or the joke of the crowd you will never know how it effects someone. Growing up when ever something happened to me I was told 'You need to grow thicker skin, let it flow off your back like water on a duck' but if I did something that upset someone.... I'll let you finish that.

No I am not a bitter old man I have led a full life despite everything I said above and now I am enjoying retirement and reading stories every day, 'Life's been good to me, thank you berry much'.

how many more scenes he had to include before he convinced readers Jessica was a good wife. He already knows the answer: all that she had to do was have sex with another man, just one time, while drunk, and at least half forced, and she’s a worthless cheating, wholly irredeemable slut.

Once a cheater, always a cheater is how I believe the line goes.

A man is not defined by his dick size nor his sexual prowess. Instead, a man shows he is one by the way he handles what life throws at him.

Here, swingerjoe expanded on the very critized comment he made about another story. He did so by making a mockery out of the husband. I may be biased but I have met swingers before and some exhibit some traits that I noticed on swingerjoe. They can be very intolerant towards others and see vanilla marriages as inferior due to the swinger's (perceived) ability to disassociate love from high quality sex.

Here we had the wife putting more relevance in an online affair she only (conveniently) made a issue of when she her own affair was found out. Oh, we also had her defend the thesis that keeping infefility a secret is for the best as it wouldn't change a thing. That's... typical swinger thinking! On the third marriage and probably second swinging partner, while having fun and enjoying financial security, why rock the boat? Why not just keep enjoying the life (we have) together? Secrets everyone has them and the adoration I call love for my spouse is not diminished in any way!

See;,I too can be prejudiced.

What a shame! This could have been a great story but the petty author had to ruin it.

Particularly when there is a hidden agenda involved. Maybe someday we can get back to just writing plots that tells a story. It's difficult for a plot to do that if it has to work around the author's need to affirm his own point of view by making caricatures of those he perceives as disagreeing with him. Just tell the story, do your arguing in the comments. Please.

Protagonist has serious issues. If he has any respect for himself, he should be in counseling.

You spent the time to write a story with very human, believable characters and with logical, plausible events. You left no gaping plot holes, and you showed growth and change in the characters without undue details. You are also amazingly open to read and think about the comments of some of your readers--unlike some writers who feel their superior skills place them above challenge.

Dave has a real serious mental problem stemming from his mother cheating on his dad and his anger issues have been building since he was a child. He is not healed and his wife is in danger bur, who knows what joe will write next?

You and I will never be on the same page on most subjects here on LW , probably not in real life either. But I do believe you are an excellent writer, and several of your stories are in my favorites. I don't usually care for reconciliation without consequence, but in this case, both sides were guilty of indescretion, so I can live with it. Besides, my particular desire is to see the affair partner suffer severe damage. One of my all time favorites, which I honestly didn't know was yours, is In The Air. I love that story, even though I realize after many readings, that you intended to show how revenge takes a toll on all parties involved. In the case of Anger Management, a lot of intelligent,verbose people have dissected it pretty thoroughly. You have deftly sparred with them all. I've gotten farther into this story, through the commentary, than many books I studied in college. I am completely satisfied that I understand it. For me, Joe, you are on a roll. Keep it comimg. Oh, I would like to know if a young millionaire, with a huge cock, and a poet's name is waiting on that GNO.

Joe,

Not sure about the closing. I haven't read all the comments, but my presumption is that it was a little poke at the angry LW writers. Ie, anger and temper issues, but his way of managing his anger was to write down stories of mayhem and distrust and retribution instead?

It did feel like you gave the relationship with Melissa short shrift. It was referenced by the wife as a concern, and only after does he go and get shutdown by her. We never actually are shown the relationship, only told about it. It certainly sounds like Jessica misconstrued the nature of the relationship from Melissa's perspective, based on her reaction to the hubby lightly propositioning her.

It is of course an ongoing question of what level of intimacy is appropriate between people outside the marriage, particularly between those of opposite gender (presuming the people involved are heterosexual and thus romantic potentials).

Anyway, thanks for the story. This felt like a bit of a sendup of the angry BtB writer/reader rather than a story you might enjoy for yourself, but it was well written overall and internally consistent. I'd just try and 'show' more about the secondary relationships than tell. Similarly, I'd probably drop highschool shower/shame stuff, unless again the point was to poke fun at the relatively common LW trope of flashback to long ago incidents that have very little to do with the current story arc.

Seems kind of unsettled - strange ending.

I think the modern TRUE Romance in the life now except for the highschool time is THE FINDING OF OTHER WOMEN AFTER DIVORCING A CHEATING WIFE!

This reconcilation story shows well to find other woman after divorcing a cheating wife is the MODERRN ROMANCE!

The hero's father would not have died if he had found another woman!

I think the best BTB stories show this fenomenon for annoying the reconciliation fans!

Still very predictable to me. She cheats on him then she leaves him.

Hmmm...

Well that's what fiction is for, right?

continue...

no rating

You say that she wasn't raped in the comments. The thing is you didn't write it in a way that makes it clear at all in the story. The "I wasn't raped" has been mentioned several times, but this other exchange hasn't.

"No, Dave!" she replied. "It was all real. One bad mistake doesn't make it all a lie."

"Mistake?" he laughed. "Forgetting to take out the garbage is a mistake! Getting a bad tattoo is a mistake! You fucking spread your slutty legs for another man, Jess!"

"I know. It was terrible, and I'm a terrible person for having done it. I have lived with that guilt on my conscience for years. And I'm sorry. But what you did to Dylan was so far over the top, I can't believe you even thought of doing it. Murder? Is that really who you've become? Am I married to a murderer?"

Can you understand how their last conversation about the sex in the story sounds like an admission that she did in fact cheat? Many cheaters deny and deflect when first confronted and admit the truth later. They even have a name for it, trickle truth. I hope you can see how some readers might have taken the way you wrote this to be her trickle truthing Dave.

Some parts seemed a little forced, but on the whole a good story.

I don't understand the comments telling you how you should have written the story. Everyone is free to put together their own stories, writing them exactly as they feel they should be written.

I will certainly read more of your works.

I gave Dave PLENTY of reasons for his anger: childhood bullying, his parents’ breakup, his father’s death, the mine collapse, the pressure of the investigation after the collapse, etc.. The “betrayal” was merely the final straw.

As for the “betrayal”, it was an assault. Jessica internalized that assault as if it was her fault (not uncommon) and felt incredibly guilty about it. She blamed herself even though she shouldn’t have.

Maybe I should write a third chapter after all.

Yes a third chapter would help with Dave getting more help after his wife reads his stories and realizes that he is still seething inside and her finally admitting that she was raped.

you do need a third chapter. I personally would like for to not go dark though.

Adding a chapter just to explain the first two seems unnecessary and boring. If you have a change or advancement in the Dave story that you like then share it.

Stories like this reflect our fallible humanity. Only for example, I've been unbelievably lucky and happily married for the last 35 years.However, prior to this I sacrificed my marriage to my high school sweetheart--my "one true love" supposedly--to petty issues enhanced by youth and ignorance. Looking back from experience I can see so many different conversations I could have had with her, counseling we might have pursued, perceived priorities that could have been reorganized. Like many young couples we've all known we didn't get it done. Relationships and life don't always get figured out or explained to everyone's satisfaction. And when we read a story that doesn't answer every conflict it forces us to revisit the uncomfortable part of being people. (Even the discussion on what constitutes rape above--we so like our lives being clearly defined!) Yet, as readers should we each figure out how to relate to that discomfort, or should it be the author's task?

I have to say though, I'm very uncomfortable with swingerjoe's idea of justice. The scumbag rapist gets away with his crime and gets rewarded with a multi-million payout.

At least he did not comment on what she was wearing when she went out to meet

the "girls". Things did come together rather quickly. One thing I felt is that the kid

should have really stood by him considering all the tension he had support worrying about him. It was not clear to me whether the screwing occurred before or after the

cave in.

SwingerJoe covered his bases well here in terms of not letting stereotypes comandeer the plot. That being said he glosses over some crucial scenes that would enhance the story . Pennnance and redemption is a frequent theme of this author. The angst can get a bit ponderous . No stroke scenes , no witty dialogues… SJ prefers to focus on baby steps of self knowledge and did quite credible job in that regard.

Bottom Line : This was worthy story to peruse , but author needs to challenge himself and go for transcendent.